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To: narses; OrthodoxPresbyterian
Kaspar and Mahony are Cardinals in full communion with the bishop of Rome. The point goes not only to their character but their continued presence in their office.

I did not add the oft posted picture of the present vicar kissing a Koran. I believe OP has made a persuasice argument for the blasphemy of such an action.

Judas laid no claim to be the vicar of Christ. Judas was denounced by Christ as a devil. The current vicar tolerates and appoints such men as pictured.

11 posted on 04/14/2004 9:13:20 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: drstevej; GeronL
At the risk of being pedantic, you are still avoiding the question. You appear to be claiming that God could not have appointed the Pope, but you refuse to answer with any specificity what authority God has given non-Catholic pastors. I could post picture after picture of Tammy Faye Baker and her ilk, that wouldn't act to answer the question in any way. Moreover, I don't think you are claiming that the heresies and sins of Catholic prelates (and they have sinned and committed heresies for 2,000 years) are truly any different than the sins and heresies of varied Protestant pastors, are you?
13 posted on 04/14/2004 9:18:04 PM PDT by narses (If you want OFF or ON my Catholic Ping list, please email me. +)
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To: drstevej; OrthodoxPresbyterian
Lately I've been reading some hard-core Calvinists. And I've noticed that they are coming across the same issue: what makes these "pastors" qualified to lead? There was an article recently with a title like "So you want to make a living at this business?" criticizing "pastors" as simply fellow church members and suggesting they make their livings as tent-makers the way St. Paul did.

The upshot of this way of thinking appears to me to be a trend towards "home church." They are rejecting the authority of the Church entirely. And I see this reflected on both sides of the divide, both from those who are staying home with their families on Sundays, and from those (Andrew Sandlin, Gary North come to mind) who are criticizing and opposing the anti-institutional trend.

I guess my point is that the issue of "By what authority?" is not being asked entirely from the outside, but is a hot-button issue right now internally within the Presbyterean fellowship and I assume within other denominations as well. Actually, these guys despise Baptists, and they especially despise the "profit oriented" preachers giving a Gospel of wealth and success. So if they have problems with authority in their own sect, they utterly reject the authority of most of their fellow protestant pastors.

20 posted on 04/14/2004 9:26:47 PM PDT by Maximilian
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To: drstevej
did not add the oft posted picture of the present vicar kissing a Koran.

Go ahead and post it. The mere fact that you brought it up is a reaffirmation of your ignorance. You haven't grasped the symbolism of the gesture.

128 posted on 04/15/2004 11:17:10 AM PDT by presidio9 ("Republicans believe every day is the 4th of July, Democrats believe every day is April 15" -Reagan)
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