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OBB, you wrote: "You assume no fading over the centuries, or that only this one means of production is possible."

I make no such assumption. Amine/saccharide products will darken with age. As you are aware amine/saccharide reactions are irreversible. Over time they will darken. They cannot be bleached (and they will not fade) but can be reduced with diimide. It is, however, fair to say that the background is darkening as well and the relative contrast is thus reduced. What I was really asking you about is your fraud explanation that meets minimum criteria so we can move forward to the point of considering your fraud/miracle dichotomy. You said I am only considering one possibility. No, actually I am not. I am asking how the amine/saccharides product was produced by fraud.

As for the Sudarium carbon dating: I have heard about it anecdotally and heard that there is no validity to it. I am always suspect of a single web based source that lacks any citations. I need to do some research to get back to you on this and the web is not the place to do it. I have sent several emails and faxes to researchers to get an answer.

The question again is this. You imply fraud. If you are to be considered seriously, you must present your fraud explanation.