Arminian Grace

http://aomin.org/blog.html ^

[fishtank]

http://aomin.org/blog.html

3/19/04: Arminian Grace The following was posted to our channel and on a web board, so hopefully Dennis will not mind my posting it here, too. It seems relevant to the recent discussion of Dave Hunt's preaching.

Arminian grace! How strange the sound Salvation hinged on ME I once was lost then turned around Was blind then chose to see

What "grace" is it that calls for choice Out of some good within? The part that willed to heed God's voice Proved stronger than my sin

Through many ardent gospel pleas I sat with heart of stone But then some hidden good in me Propelled me toward my home

When we've been there ten thousand years Because of what we've done We've no less days to sing our praise Than when we first begun

- Dennis Walter Cochran

[fishtank]

Please everyone take this seriously, without taking yourself too seriously.

[fishtank]

REFORMATTED


3/19/04: Arminian Grace
The following was posted to our channel and on a web board, so hopefully Dennis will not mind my posting it here, too. It seems relevant to the recent discussion of Dave Hunt's preaching.



Arminian grace! How strange the sound

Salvation hinged on ME

I once was lost then turned around

Was blind then chose to see




What "grace" is it that calls for choice

Out of some good within?

The part that willed to heed God's voice

Proved stronger than my sin




Through many ardent gospel pleas

I sat with heart of stone

But then some hidden good in me

Propelled me toward my home




When we've been there ten thousand years

Because of what we've done

We've no less days to sing our praise

Than when we first begun



- Dennis Walter Cochran

[AZhardliner]

Satire and humor are great and effective ways to puncture the balloon of self importance. Great post.

[CARepubGal]

LOL! Alex and Dr Steve have competition. :)

[fishtank]

I few years ago, I saw a great article on "grace" in our hardcopy Groliers encyclopedia.

They gave two definitions: the RCC version and the Reformed version. The article then spent a short time comparing and contrasting the two very different definitions.

[FactQuest]

How disappointing.

Sure, I know its humorous, but it is also quite pointed.

And mischaracterizes the Arminian position.

Quite frankly, it ends up making you look both ignorant and mean-spirited, which not a good start to winning someone over to your viewpoint.

I've seen lots of threads here over this subject, participated in some, but always thought that at least most of posters were seeking to enlighten and persuade.

What if an Arminian changed the words to a song we all love, throwing in something about making God the author of all sin, and we are all nothing but His puppets?

[fishtank]

"Quite frankly, it ends up making you look both ignorant and mean-spirited, which not a good start to winning someone over to your viewpoint.

I've seen lots of threads here over this subject, participated in some, but always thought that at least most of posters were seeking to enlighten and persuade.

What if an Arminian changed the words to a song we all love, throwing in something about making God the author of all sin, and we are all nothing but His puppets?"

Thanks for the note. In all seriousness, the reason a parody song like that is humorous is because it is poking fun at the attitude of the human Arminian, quite different from making fun of God.

There are extremes of hyper-Calvinism that I reject, but too often I see people deny crucial truths like total depravity and the assurance of salvation.

[drstevej]

Here's my version


Prevenient Grace (Amazing Grace by John Newton)

Prevenient Grace,
How sweet the sound
That enabled a prince like me
I once was lost, but I came around
Was blind, yet still I see.

And another classic...

I Cleansed Me from Sin (Revive Us Again)

I praise You, O God!
For giving Me hope,
For Jesus Who died,
And left me the soap.

Hallelujah! Mine the glory.
Hallelujah! Amen.
Hallelujah! Mine the glory.
I Cleansed me from sin.

We praise Thee, O God!
For Thy Spirit of light,
Who hath shown us our Savior,
With prevenient eyesight

Hallelujah! Mine the glory.
Hallelujah! Amen.
Hallelujah! Mine the glory.
I Cleansed me from sin.

All glory and praise
To the Lamb that was slain,
Who hath borne all our sins,
Yet I scrubbed every stain.

Hallelujah! Mine the glory.
Hallelujah! Amen.
Hallelujah! Mine the glory.
I Cleansed me from sin.

Some glory and praise
To the God in my mind,
Who hast brought me, but taught me,
To scrub my be-hind.

Hallelujah! Mine the glory.
Hallelujah! Amen.
Hallelujah! Mine the glory.

[Gamecock]

Who wrote this:

“Lord, I thank thee I am not like those poor presumptuous Calvinists. Lord, I was born with a glorious free-will; I was born with power by which I can turn to thee of myself; I have improved my grace. If everybody had done the same with their grace that I have, they might all have been saved. Lord, I know thou dost not make us willing if we are not willing ourselves. Thou givest grace to everybody; some do not improve it, but I do. There are many that will go to hell as much bought with the blood of Christ as I was; they had as much of the Holy Ghost given to them; they had as good a chance, and were as much blessed as I am. It was not thy grace that made us to differ; I know it did a great deal, still I turned the point; I made use of what was given me, and others did not—that is the difference between me and them.”


No Googling....

[Corin Stormhands]

Gee, Gamecock, did you dig up this old thread to remind us once more why Steve and Gail were banned?

Just asking.

[Gamecock]

Steve didn't start the thread.

[Corin Stormhands]

Never said he did.

[Gamecock]

If you were just asking why I posted to this thread, I don't see why pinging the RM was needed.

Please don't post to me on this thread.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Spurgeon, tongue planted firmly in elected cheek.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

And here it is in context...

"....you never did meet a Christian in your life who ever said he came to Christ without Christ coming to him. You have heard a great many Arminian sermons, I dare say, but you never heard an Arminian prayer -- for the saints in prayer appear as one in word, and deed and mind. An Arminian on his knees would pray desperately like a Calvinist. He cannot pray about free will: there is no room for it. Fancy him praying...

"Lord, I thank thee I am not like those poor presumptuous Calvinists. Lord, I was born with a glorious free-will; I was born with power by which I can turn to thee of myself; I have improved my grace. If everybody had done the same with their grace that I have, they might all have been saved. Lord, I know thou dost not make us willing if we are not willing ourselves. Thou givest grace to everybody; some do not improve it, but I do. There are many that will go to hell as much bought with the blood of Christ as I was; they had as much of the Holy Ghost given to them; they had as good a change, and were as much blessed as I am. It was not thy grace that made us to differ; I know it did a great deal, still I turned the point; I made use of what was given me, and others did not-that is the difference between me and them."

That is a prayer for the devil, for nobody else would offer such a prayer as that. Ah, when they are preaching and talking very slowly, there may be wrong doctrine; but when they come to pray, the true thing slips out, they cannot help it. If a man talks very slowly, he may speak in a fine manner; but when he comes to talk fast, the old brogue of his country, where he was born, slips out. I ask you again, did you ever meet a Christian man who said, "I came to Christ without the power of the Spirit?" If you ever did meet such a man, you need have no hesitation in saying, "My dear sir, I quite believe it -- and I believe you went away again without the power of the Spirit; and that you know nothing about the matter, and are in the gall of bitterness and the bond of iniquity." Do I hear one Christian man saying, "I sought Jesus before he sought me. I went to the Spirit, and the Spirit did not come to me?" No, beloved; we are obliged, each one of us, to put our hands to our hearts, and say...

"Grace taught my soul to pray,
And made my eyes o'erflow;
Twas grace that kept me to this day,
And will not let me go."

Is there one here -- a solitary one -- man or woman, young or old, who can say, "I sought God before he sought me?"

No; even you who are a little Arminian, will sing --

"O yes! I do love Jesus
Because he first loved me"

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Spurgeon bump.

[xzins]

Dear FT,

I think this violates the RF rule about blatantly, intentionally offensive threads.

I would recommend that you request it be taken down.

[Corin Stormhands]

In fairness to fishtank, this was posted before those rules were put into place.

[xzins]

Yep, you are correct. I assumed it was a recent post because of the ping.

[fishtank]

Look how old this post is!!!!!!