Coming soon: Long-awaited Vatican document on liturgical abuse

Catholic News Service ^ | March 26, 2004 | John Thavis

[Land of the Irish]

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- A long-awaited Vatican document on liturgical abuse has been signed by Pope John Paul II and is expected to be published after Easter.

The Latin text is being translated into various languages, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, said in late March. Other Vatican sources said the document probably would be ready for release toward the end of April.

The document has been unusually controversial. Last summer, details were leaked from a draft of the text, which denounced a long string of liturgical errors and called on bishops to correct them.

[Land of the Irish]

It should be of no great concern to you. All you receive at your Protestant service is bread and wine.

I, however, receive the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ.

[Land of the Irish]

The world's bishops think otherwise.

Where are God's bishops as opposed to the "world's bishops"?

[dsc]

"Where are God's bishops as opposed to the "world's bishops"?

OOOooo, a much better answer than the one I was considering.

[Notwithstanding]

I believe this was the action plan:

Step 1. Determine which abuses shall be implemented (in other words, which ones are most likely to diminish faith in doctrines among laymen).

Step 2. Implement these abuses, pretending not to notice they or exist or that they are abusive.

Step 3. Ask Vatican to approve the abuses because the practice has sprung forth spontaneously from the faithful and is a long-standing (5, 7, 10, 20 years) practice.

Step 4. Act indignant and hurt when anyone who notices your sneaky scheme.

Step 5. Call names and pretend there was never any scheme.

Step 6. Tap into cluelessness and extreme anti-theist bias of the press in orde to further your cause.

[dsc]

Good analysis.

[kosta50]

All of these things were approved by the Congregation for the Liturgy!

Why were all the changes made to begin with? What was wrong with the RC Church before Vatican II?

[Robert Drobot]

"The world's bishops....can not stand as equal to the Vicar of Christ, and have much to atone for before they are called before God.

May their judgment be swift and merciful.

[sydney smith]

The Church has been remade in the likeness of "Queer Eye...". I just read an article in "The Wanderer" in which a priest wrote about the remaking of the Church by those that are just like the show "Queer Eye". It is so true. You can see it is the architecture, the liturgy, the vestments. Everything. "Queer Eye for the Straight Catholic". Hilarious but true.

[Desdemona]

I never thought of it that way, but you're probably right.

And then we get another argument: But that's how they do it in [name any city or continent here].

I've run into that one over kneeling. People who had never been to Europe claimed that there were no kneelers in Europe and the Europeans don't kneel. Well, after quite a bit of time in Europe I can tell you that they do and marble is preferable for kneeling over bare wood. That's painful.

The whole thing was part of an effort to destroy as much tradition as possible. Secular society was doing it's darnedest and the church, at least on the face, had to keep up.

I still want to see the draft. What was so objectionable?

[Desdemona]

Why were all the changes made to begin with? What was wrong with the RC Church before Vatican II?

Nothing. In fact, the church itself hasn't changed. Although there was a problem with some of the laity. They seemed to assimilate to secular culture so well, they wanted to see it in the Mass. Add that to big voids in education pertaining to the arts, something that the Catholic church and our Orthodox friends hold dear, and you end up with people more interested in being entertained than knowing what true worship is.

This is all a result of neglect all the way around.

[Pio]

He also wrote that it would go against Vatican II to try and return to a "schism ... between lay faithful and ordained ministers."

I'm all for that schism. That's a good schism. Time to get the sneaker wearing fatsos out of that Sanctuary.

The Hippy Dippy Mass will now become Queer Eye Mass. They'll even bring back some Latin when it becomes trendy.

[findingtruth]

details were leaked from a draft of the text, which denounced a long string of liturgical errors and called on bishops to correct them.

Yet another Church document for our bishops to ignore. Unfortunately, the time is long past for the issuance of more documents, encyclicals, etc. What has been needed for a long time is deposings, defrockings, excommunications, etc.

[Notwithstanding]

EXACTLY!

We lived in Germany years ago (and just recently returned to live agian).

Years later when we moved to Indiana, the pastor introduced his "I invite you to please remain standing" policy in the parish. Happily, most parishioners ingored him. But after a few months his invitation tuned into a command.

So most people finally were brow-beaten into it. (Of course, this coming from a pastor who loudly loathed clergy who are authoritarian!)

He used the silly excuse , when asked about it in a public forum, "well "thats how they do it in Europe" - to which I responded publicly "I lived and travelled all over Europe and I never encountered parishes that do not kneel - in fact the norm is thatpeople kneel even when there are no kneelers."

Naturally, none of this mattered. It was his show and he did what it took to get his way. (How pastoral).

Then, he used the excuse later on that this was what the parishioners wanted.

I feel sorry for him. He is a fool, a liar, and a terrible priest who wnats to be liked and popular more than he wants to be faithful.

[Desdemona]

That's one of the things that drives me nuts about the modernist destructors. They assume that all of their flock are ignorant dummies who can't read and have never travelled.

[Viva Christo Rey]

Picnic "Mass" celebrated by resident witch at Cathedral of San Fernando, San Antonio, Texas, April 29, 2003.

Picnic "Mass" celebrated by resident witch at Cathedral of San Fernando, San Antonio, Texas, April 29, 2003.

[Notwithstanding]

you just gotta provide background on the photo

too strange

I just gotta know more about this event

[broadsword]

The saddest thing about the witch's picnic mass in the cathedral is that we can no longer be surprised by such abominations.

[cebadams]

I just noticed this among the list posted above:

-- Using corruptible metals, glass or ceramic for the sacred vessels, including the chalice.

Does this mean that the vessels used by the Extraordinary Eucharistic Ministers must be of incorruptible metals also?

From my experience, the priest uses a gold challis and bowl but pours the wine/blood into various glass goblets for distribution. Likewise, the consecrated hosts are distributed into various other vessels (typlically glass or ceramic) for distribution.

[topcat54]

The bread and the cup are the body and blood, spiritually speaking. There is a sacramental union between the sign and the thing signified. But the sign is still a sign.

Romanist confuse the meaning of Jesus' words. We shouldn't take the words "this is my body" any more literally than we should take His words "I am the door" literally.