"The Passion" Isn't Anti-Semitic, Says Vatican Aide

Look at virtude's phrase for example, "Acquiescence to leftist/neocon supremacism." Those are code words. Neocon Supremacism => Jewish Supremacism. The silence is deafening ...

Reply to 65. Quinn is perfectly correct.

From 1939-June 1940, she and France held what looked like a very strong hand

That is the first time I've ever heard that opinion. Even if your claim were true, Britain stood (almost) alone from mid 1940 until late 1941 when the fate of the world hung in the balance. There were Americans who did not want to fight Hitler.

if you were trying to make a point, I missed it.

Face it, the "bigot" you are looking for under every bed is staring you right back in the mirror af_vet_1981

You called me a bigot. I think that means there is nothing of any spiritual, moral, ethical, or intellectual value to be gained in conversation with you. Let this be the end of our discussin. Please do not address me again. Thank you.

That is the first time I've ever heard that opinion.

Check some of the WWII history books. In manpower, raw materials, tanks, ships Britain & France far outnumbered Germany. Italy only entered the war when France was about to fall.

Britain stood (almost) alone from mid 1940 until late 1941 when the fate of the world hung in the balance.

Again, I'm going to be picky and point out the Soviets actually took the brunt of the fighting starting in mid-1941. They, of course, did not do so out of alturism but because their Nazi allies turned on them.

There were Americans who did not want to fight Hitler.

Which is normal. Who wants to fight anybody? And who can feel comfortable about advocating military action when it's somebody else's neck that its being risked?

"Acquiescence to leftist/neocon supremacism." Those are code words. Neocon Supremacism => Jewish Supremacism. The silence is deafening ..

I was worried you were going to bring that up. I saw that post after I posted what I did.

While I could that it wasn't a code word, it was speaking more ideologically, when you couple it with what he said about not being able to turn the other cheek in a multicultural, multiethnic environment I have to say.......uncle. OK, that's one.

But at the same time, don't get caught up in the exception disproving the rule, for everyone one you've named on this thread, I can name 10 that you argued with who are not anti-Jewish. So along those lines, all the others who are argueing are not doing so out of malicous hatred of Jews or latent anti-Semetism, but out of righteous indignation for having their faith linked to genocide. You just can't go around poking people in the eye and not expect them to get PISSED OFF. I mean, as conservatives in general, we reject the Victocrat mentality that too many of the Jewish detractors have displayed about this film on general principle, because as conservatives such self centered carping is usually a sign of a liberal entitlement mentality. I'm not saying Jews are looking to be "subsidized" but I am saying its grating on the ears to listen to adults whine so much. You have to understand that this DEMAND to be pitied is at least unhealthy, particuarly when it is demanded of your friends and there is no accustation too low in order for you to get it.

You called me a bigot. I think that means there is nothing of any spiritual, moral, ethical, or intellectual value to be gained in conversation with you. Let this be the end of our discussin. Please do not address me again. Thank you.

Wow, thanks for proving my point from my last point about Victocrats so dramatically. "You called me a name" (that I have been calling you) uh oh, here comes the tears.

But its fine for you to insinuate THE SAME THING on thread after thread on this Christian movie, consistently making the obcene accusation that Christianity is the root of genocide against Jews, but when the motivation for the carping is exposed, you take your ball and go home.

Not only do I confidently stand behind my assertion that you are a bigot against Christians, you are worse...you are a whiney bigot, a professional victim.

Your prose are excellent, however, emotionally you need to grow up.

I said the Gospels portray him as being in the clink for fighting against Roman occupation.
Please point out the verses that say that. I don't remember that -- and I hear the Passion story recited every Palm Sunday (with a different Gospel used each year on a four year cycle)

Mark 15:7

In the movie Satan is portrayed as a member of the Jewish mob, and the Jews implicitly portrayed as Satan's people, none of which is in scripture.

I've often heard this canard. In the movie, Satan lurks among both the Jews and the Romans. I don't know why people keep saying he's only among the Jews.

And Satan is not portrayed as part of any mob. He lurks unseen among them, influencing them. He earlier tried to get Jesus to quit, and he's hoping that the pain will cause Jesus to quit.

Satan lurks among both the Jews and the Romans. I don't know why people keep saying he's only among the Jews.

It's an unwarranted assumption that because Satan is lurking in the crowd, s/he/it is part of the crowd.

If you watch it again, you can see that while Satan is moving through the crowd up one side of the Via Dolorosa, Mary is moving up the other side. They are flanking Jesus as he struggles along, and Satan carrying the ugly "baby" is a hideous parody of Mary with Jesus in her arms.

I saw it more as a confrontation with Mary and an attack on Jesus than any comment on the composition of the crowd. Otherwise, the folks on Mary's side would be good, while the folks on Satan's side would be bad. That makes no sense.

Too many folks are desperate to find anti-Semitism in this movie. They're like the old Soviet scientists who knew what they wanted to prove and figured out some way to get there.

"Navarro-Valls made this statement in response to a request from Riccardo Di Segni, chief rabbi of Rome, who, after seeing the film Tuesday, asked that the Vatican condemn it officially.
Joaquín Navarro-Valls is regarded as the Pope's closest advisor."

Unfortunately Navarro-Valls has just denied that he ever made this statement.

Apparently the Pope's closest adviser never makes public comments on works of art.

"I'm not Catholic but what was so wrong about the Church prior to Vatican II? My gut reaction is that it was a move toward watering down."

Oh well - at least if you were a Catholic you would be a good one!

Check some of the WWII history books. In manpower, raw materials, tanks, ships Britain & France far outnumbered Germany. Italy only entered the war when France was about to fall.

That must have been comforting to the British when they stood (almost) alone in the West to keep evil at bay.

"Vatican aid says the Passion is not anti-semetic"

You can quit worrying now, the Vatican has spoken.

God is in Heaven, all is right with the world:)

BigMack

You can quit worrying now, the Vatican has spoken.

Thanks, I feel so much better now. Roma locuta est, causa finita est. (Rome has spoken, the case is closed).

I hate antiSemitism.

Makes two of us. Difference is, you also seem to hate christianity.

They know that victory for us means victory for religion. And they could not tolerate that. The world is too small to provide adequate "living room" for both Hitler and God. In proof of that, the Nazis have now announced their plan for enforcing their new German, pagan religion all over the world—a plan by which the Holy Bible and the Cross of Mercy would be displaced by Mein Kampf and the swastika and the naked sword. Franklin D. Roosevelt State of the Union Address. January 6, 1942

Nice post. Of course, Churchill also said WWII was a fight between Christianity and Nazi "barbarism." Both Churchill and Roosevelt lead rallies where Christian hymns were sund and Christian prayers said. None of Hitlers rallies included Christian hymns or prayers. These are incovenient facts that anti-christian bigots (historical ignorami who want to equate christianity with naziism) are eager to ignore.

af-vet is one of those hate-clouded bigots who insists on seeing christianity in naziism. I say "hate clouded" because your mind has to be really fogged - - - or you have to be very ignorant of history - - to engage in such ranting. Where are the records of prayers or church-going by Hitler or his generals? In contrast, churchgoing, prayers and hymn-singing were part of the public rallying on the Allied side, led by Churchill and Roosevelt. Patton's famous "weather prayer" at the Battle of the Bulge notes the common allied belief that this was a war AGAINST ATHEISM. Where is there a record of Nazi generals issuing prayers to the Christian God? There isn't - - and that's why the fools who tout af-vet's sophomoric hate-filled line should be ignored

Patton's Prayer
"Lord, this is Patton speaking to you. The last fourteen days have been awful. Rain, snow, more rain, more snow... and I have begun to ask myself why not go to your headquarters. Which side are you on?"

"For three years, my chaplains have explained that this is a religious war. They have told me that this is a crusade, the only difference being that we move on tanks instead of horses. They have insisted that we destroy the German army and this atheist Hitler, so that freedom of religion can return to Europe."

"Until now I followed them, the more so as you helped us without reserve. Blue sky and calm sea in Africa helped to make our unloading easy to eliminate Rommel. The capture of Sicily was relatively easy, and you gave us a perfect time for our armored push through France, the greatest victory military that you have granted me. You often gave me excellent counsel in my difficult decisions of command, and you dropped German units into my traps, which made their elimination relatively easy."

"But now you seem to have changed horses. You seem to me to have given to Von Rundstedt the green light. My army is neither trained nor equipped for war in winter. And as you know, this weather is more appropriate for Eskimos than for Southern riders."

"In fact, Lord, I have begun to think that I have offended you in some way. That suddenly you have lost your sympathy to our cause. That you are in complicity with this Von Rundstedt and his puppet."

"You know, without my saying so, that our situation is desperate."

"Obviously, I tell my staff that everything is going as planned, but do I need to add that the 101st Airborne is opposing terrible forces in Bastogne, and that these continual storms make air supplies impossible? I sent good Hugh Gaffey, one of my able generals, with his 4th Armored Division, to this important Noeud road to help the encircled garrison, but he has more trouble with your rotten weather than with the Boches!"

"I do not like to complain unnecessarily, but my soldiers really suffered martyrdom from the Meuse to Echternach. Today I visited several hospitals, all full of cold people, while the wounded remain strewn across the fields, because we cannot bring them back to give them care. But that is not the worst of the situation. The poor visibility and the continual rains have completely paralyzed my air forces on the ground. My battle plan requires help from the fighter-bombers, and if my planes cannot fly, tell me how I can use them as air artillery?"

"This is not the only deplorable situation, but worse still, my reconnaissance aircraft have not taken to the air in fourteen days, and I do not have the slightest idea what is happening behind the German lines. Jesus, Lord, I fight a shadow! Without your cooperation on the weather, how can I lead effective attacks? All this probably appears irrational to you, but I have lost patience with your ministers who try to persuade me that this is one typical winter in the Ardennes, and that I must have confidence."

"The devil with confidence and patience! You have to only choose which side you are on. You must come to my aid, so that I can liquidate the entire German army, and offer it like birthday gift to the Baby Jesus. Lord, I have never been unreasonable. I do not ask the impossible of you. I do not even ask for a miracle, only four little days of beautiful weather."

"Give me four clear days so my planes can fly, so my fighter-bombers can bomb the Germans (and punish them well), so my observation planes can pinpoint the targets for my splendid artillery. Give me four sunny days to dry this rotten mud, so my tanks can roll, so the ammunition and the rations can reach my starving and badly equipped infantrymen. I need these four days to send Von Rundstedt and his army of infidels to their valhalla."

"I am sick of this useless butchery of young Americans, and in exchange of these four days of weather favorable to combat, I will provide you enough Boches to keep your accountants occupied with months of work." "So it is."

Translation of the text's original prayer by General George Patton Jr Published during the battle of the Bulge. This prayer was written by Patton in the vault of "the Pescatore Foundation" in Luxembourg, a few days before Christmas 1944.

Unbelievable that this supposed "af-vet" bristles at being called what he clearly is - an antichristian bigot. He's really out of touch with reality.