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To: Dr. Eckleburg; ksen
God foreknew me before the world began and He foreknew that I would believe in Him, that does not mean that He made the decision for me, which is why I cannot buy a vowel ksen :)

JM
2,832 posted on 04/09/2004 9:25:12 AM PDT by JohnnyM
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To: JohnnyM
God foreknew me before the world began and He foreknew that I would believe in Him, that does not mean that He made the decision for me, which is why I cannot buy a vowel ksen :)

If our election is based on Gods foreknowledge and he REALLY DESIRES all men to be saved without exception, why did He not see to it that they were given the amount of grace necessary to believe?

We have to conclude that it was never His plan or desire that all men without exception be saved..for if God desires to do something He will.

Creation is not all about men , or God being lonely and needing company . Creation and man was purposed for His Glory . Gods holiness is vindicated by His judgment, God is glorified in His Justice AND His mercy.

Without Judgment there is no such thing as mercy , they are different sides of the same coin. God will be glorified on the day that the reprobates are judged ...that is why God NEVER desired or intended for all men everywhere to be saved..It makes void His holiness.

One of the main "problems" with Arminian Theology is it makes God a puppet of men. He MUST respond to the overture of men , He must save them, He has no FREE WILL in the matter. Mans will is sovereign over Gods. Does God have no choice on whom He will have as an adopted son? Or as we see here , does the adoptive father select his children

There is one more point that I find of interest , that is the majority of Free will Baptists and many Arminians believe that God removed that precious free will from them when they were saved..they suddenly have no choice in the matter and are forced to go to heaven if they want it or not. How unfair of Him huh ?

2,859 posted on 04/09/2004 10:52:57 AM PDT by RnMomof7 (Broomstick Jockey)
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To: JohnnyM; ksen; BibChr; snerkel; RnMomof7; Alex Murphy; lockeliberty; drstevej; Wrigley
You're saying that God's "foreknowledge" of your salvation is merely an awareness of your accomplishment, since it was you who ultimately made the final decision to believe in Him. God looked down the tunnel of time, saw your decision to believe, and thus He saved you.

Unfortunately, this differs not at all with the works-based salvation preached by Romanists and Arminians alike. Through some innate, higher ability on your part, you have chosen wisely, while those who are less righteous, logical, intelligent, or intuitive than you, have chosen poorly.

Additionally, if God "sees" your actual choice ahead of time, how do you imagine you could ever do anything else BUT make the decision to follow Christ? If something exists in the mind of God (especially your name among the elect,) it has existed for all time, and is irrevocable.

So if we are God's creations, as He made us, and if God is "aware" that you will choose Christ and are saved through that choice, could you ever have done anything else?

If the answer is no, then your choice is not really a choice, but part of God's eternal plan for His creation.

And that is part of the great comfort of Christ, but so many choose to miss it.

Likely, you may come back with the old saw, "Why can't 'free will' be part of God's plan?"

And I will respond (trying to hurry up this conversation on Good Friday) with the question to you, "Is there 'free will' in heaven?"

You may be confounded by this question, and come back with the accusation, "Why would God make us robots in order to force us to love Him?"

And my answer to that would be the same as it always is...

"If believing that God is God and I am not; if believing every leaf that falls from the trees is ordained by God Himself; if believing the hairs on my head are all numbered; if believing God ordained the end from the beginning; if believing no one knows the names of the elect whom God chose from all races and nations of the world before time began; if believing God's plan for creation was written in the heavens before the foundation of the world; if believing Christ's sacrifice is the very purpose for all existence; then I am a fortunate and happy robot-sheep in God's regenerated and redeemed woolly flock.

Ewe should be so lucky. 8~)

2,890 posted on 04/09/2004 12:35:03 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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