The big five losers from 'The Passion'

Jerusalem Post ^ | 3.10.04

[Quix]

REFERRING TO THE AUTHOR OF THE ARTICLE.

[mafree]

Is that really Christianity's central message - not that Jesus lived an inspirational life by which the faithful should be roused but that he died a horrible death for which the sinners should feel responsible?

Uh...yes.

[hellinahandcart]

Uh...yes.

It's not like it was a secret for 2000 years, why do so many seem so surprised?

[SusanTK]

Pan Yans wife is correct. Right after Jacko Sickos arrest he was all over TV defending Jackson. He said he would be comfortable leaving his own kids in Jackson's care. I saw him on Fox and MSNBC. He was labled as a spiritual advisor of Jackson.

[Romulus]

Is not the entire point of the apocropal second coming of Christ not meant to "save" the souls of God's beloved Jews?

I think you may mean "apocalyptic", not "apocryphal". But no, the second coming is not all about the Jews. It's about the resurrection of the dead, and a final ordering of all creation into what will be saved and what lost. The Apocalypse tells us that Jesus will come as Bridegroom to his spouse, the Church, of whom Israel is only the prototype. I'm sure Jesus has great love for the Jews, but they do not enjoy any privileged guarantee of salvation in the Christian economy. Whether observant Jews will receive Jesus as Messiah at the Second Coming is an interesting question. No doubt some will. But as the image and likeness of God, man retains free will at all times, including the freedom to choose for Christ or against him. No one will be saved against his will.

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

Character judgment is apparently not his strong suit. I'm not terribly concerned about what he thinks of Mel Gibson, you know? The more we know about Boteach, the better Gibson looks.

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

It takes a staggering amount of ego-centrism to ignore Christian understanding of the Christian faith, and focus solely on what it means to Jews. News-flash: American Christians don't have pogroms against the Jews. The suggestion that viewing this movie is going to lead them to it is simultaneously a stupid reading of history, and a thumb in the eye of modern Christians.

It's very insightful to see people like Mr. Boteach equating American Christians with proto-Nazis, which is essentially what this critique amounts to. In his eyes, we're a couple of propagandistic movies away from lighting the ovens of our own Auschwitz. Nice to know what your "passionate admirers" truly think about you.

Eloquently stated.

[Sabertooth]

The Apocalypse tells us that Jesus will come as Bridegroom to his spouse, the Church, of whom Israel is only the prototype.

"Israel is only the prototype?"

Scriptural documentation, please.

[Dawgreg]

Steve, Christians who blame the Jews for Christs' death are wrong, imho. This death was pre-ordained according to scripture with sins of mankind being responsible. The Christians are the Jews greatest ally, because our Savior was a Jew. Forgive me for a simple-minded reply, but that's the way I feel in my heart.

[AMDG&BVMH]

"Can we sit here and guarantee to every Jew on the planet that nothing could bring back that evil? Or a different, perhaps more insidious, evil?"

Well, no. Evil is waiting in the wings, ready to pounce, "when good men do nothing."

One thought I have long entertained: I think it is not enough to denounce Nazism, etc. People have long asked, how could something like that happen in a civilized country like Germany? SOME have blamed ALL Germans for it, the innocent as well as the guilty. An easy way to project the accommodation of evil away from the self, and onto "those other guys, over there." The point is, the accommodation to evil is not a peculiarly or particularly "German thing." The point is, the heart of man is the same, and great evil COULD happen elsewhere. (Stalin, Mao, etc. come to mind).

That is not to say that accommodation to evil would necessarily take the same form: an anti-Jewish pogrom, for example. For one thing, people's antennae are up for something like that -- as many reviews of the Passion demonstrate! ;)

I appreciate your logical conclusion that a pogrom is not likely in the US. I agree. And the more closely people follow Christ's message, the LESS likely it will be, and the less likely the acceptance of other evils will be.

[presidio9]

It's a little bit insulting when "enlightened" Jews like Rabbi Boteach try to get us to focus on the ministry of Christ, as if that is why He came here. The sermons and the miracles are, of course, important, but Christians do not worship Jesus because He walked on water. Other guys have claimed to have done this. We worship Christ because we believe that he was the Son of God, who died for our sins.

I'm not saying that you have to accept our beliefs, but if the Rabbi wants to participate in the dialogue, he needs to have a clearer understanding of exactly what it is the we believe, and he needs to respect that belief. Otherwise his opinions appear self-serving.

[Dr. Frank fan]

No, we all killed him.

Inevitably someone says this to me in this discussion. Yes, I understand that "we all killed him". That is the symbolic meaning of his death. I get it.

But it is useful (because otherwise confusion abounds) to separate that symbolic meaning of his death from the physical act of his death. All of these discussions over who killed Jesus are analyzing the physical act, not the symbolic meaning, so your comment here is irrelevant. And who committed the physical act(s) which contributed to or caused Jesus's death?

Some Romans along with some Jews, 2000 years ago, all of whom are now dead. Like I said.

[hattend]

The biggest losers are those who were predicting that if the movie was released, Jews would be rounded up, loaded up in boxcars and shipped off to the ovens by rabid Christians.

Okay, it's hyperbole, but so were the pre-release statements from numerous sources.

[zechariah]

1. Christian conservatives whose ability to protest violence in Hollywood films has now been severely compromised.

The Christian community in the US earned my abiding respect for serving as the foremost guardians of the morality of the American nation. There are literally hundreds of Christian organizations in the US devoted to enforcing standards of decency in Hollywood, strengthening marriage, and teaching young teens to abstain from sex rather than use a condom.

But the Christian community's enthusiasm for The Passion has dealt a catastrophic blow to its credibility in condemning violence in films and squalid video games such as Grand Theft Auto. Gibson's movie is one of the most brutal and bloody in the history of film and rivals The Texas Chainsaw Massacre for sheer gore.

No doubt my Christian brethren would argue that the violence in The Passion is warranted, given the fact that the subject matter is religiously inspiring. But I predict that Hollywood directors famous for gratuitous violence, such as Quentin Tarantino and Oliver Stone, will now find convincing arguments that violence in their films also serves an important social purpose.

I wonder if the author protested against the violence in Schindler's List when it was released?

It isn't hard to understand that movies like Schindler's List and The Passion aren't entertainment--they are serious films for adults that deal with ugly, violent issues. They in no way supply justification for violence-as-entertainment nor does approval of them somehow weaken the credibility of those that call for a much needed clean up the trash that gets offered as "entertainment" by Hollywood.

[z]

[zechariah]

Seems to me that other movie makers are now going to push the same boundaries, with motives that are FAR less pure than the makers of this movie. I'm not arguing that the movie shouldn't have been made -- but it DOES seem like a legitimate concern anyway.

Personally, I think movies like Schindler's List and The Passion are in a completely seperate class from movies that portray violence as entertainment. Schindler's List and The Passion are not entertainment. They are hard, serious films that deal with hard, serious issues and I think they have a legitimate place in our society. (I think we could use a good film adaptation of Solzhenitzyn's Archipelago Gulag too--it would probably include the passage from the book where the testicles of male "suspects" are stepped on and crushed by the "investigator".)

At the same time, I think you are probably right that some people will attempt to use graphic nature of serious films as an excuse to present violence and immorality as entertainment.

Even so, I think we need films like Schindler's List and The Passion.

[z]

[Ann Archy]

Schmuly Boteach is FRIENDS with Michael Jackson, not just a movie mate about a brother......BIG difference!!

[af_vet_1981]

Has President Bush ever referred to Democrats as his friends ?

[Mamzelle]

Movie violence in re Passion--

I think yours a reasonable observation. Gibson did not try to avoid the R-rating, and frankly said that it deserved it.

As someone not from a Catholic background, but with an interest in art, it was quite shocking to me (as a child) the medieval and renaissance artwork I would come across in the hefty volumes found in public libraries--the Ecstacy of St. Teresa, and the Martyrdom of St. Gerome (hope I got his name right, the one always shown bristling with arrows). This artwork was made and displayed in church property for the education of an otherwise illiterate public.

It was surely hard to take, R-rated art, but I came to accept it as part of a tradition of graphic portrayal of martyrdom.

I believe the Passion very much in that tradition--I thought about those works of art when I watched the movie.

Different, but not exactly what I'd call gratuitous. Not that I don't enjoy a "blowed-em-up" action movie now and then, but this is quite a thing apart.

[ought-six]

"Unbelieveable. No further comment."

It is sad, but I get the strong impression that many Jews embrace anti-semitism like a protective cloak, in that they see it everywhere, in everyone and everything. For such folks, it justifies their existence, as they see themselves as the perpetual victim, and the need to convince themselves on a daily basis that they are victims. That is so sad for a people with such a great history, and a great tradition. Thank God there are many Jews who do not subscribe to such a sad constitution, because the world needs their strength of character in these trying times.

[presidio9]

Yes, unfortunately, talking about antisemitism passes for religion for a lot of liberal Jews.