To: Diago; narses; Loyalist; BlackElk; american colleen; saradippity; Polycarp; Dajjal; ...
There has been a lot of speculation about Mel Gibson being "schismatic" and whatever. This article provides some hard facts, although it does not definitively answer the question.
Note that Fr. Stephen Somerville is officially a priest of the diocese of Toronto. However, as the article says, he has become a traditionalist, now offers only the Latin Mass, and has publicly renounced his service on the ICEL -- the commission that created the vernacular English Mass. That article has been posted here on FR before, here is an original link:
An Open Letter to the Church Renouncing my Service on I.C.E.L.
To: Maximilian
Here are some quotes from the letter of the priest who said Mass for Mel Gibson, on the occasion when he renounced his ICEL service:
"I am a priest who for over ten years collaborated in a work that became a notable harm to the Catholic Faith. I wish now to apologize before God and the Church and to renounce decisively my personal sharing in that damaging project. I am speaking of the official work of translating the new post-Vatican II Latin liturgy into the English language, when I was a member of the Advisory Board of the International Commission on English Liturgy (I.C.E.L.)."
"I soon felt perplexity before the bold mistranslations confidently proposed and pressed by the everstrengthening radical/progressive element in our group. I felt but could not articulate the wrongness of so many of our committees renderings."
"I.C.E.L.s changes amounted to true devastation especially in the oration prayers of the Mass."
"Such a litany of defects suggests that many modern Masses are sacrilegious, and some could well be invalid. They certainly are less Catholic, and less apt to sustain Catholic Faith."
"I now come to identify my other reason for renouncing my translating work on I.C.E.L. It is an even more serious and delicate matter. In the past year (from mid 2001), I have come to know with respect and admiration many traditional Catholics. These, being persons who have decided to return to pre-Vatican II Catholic Mass and Liturgy, and being distinct from conservative Catholics (those trying to retouch and improve the Novus Ordo Mass and Sacraments of post-Vatican II), these Traditionals, I say, have taught me a grave lesson. They brought to me a large number of published books and essays. These demonstrated cumulatively, in both scholarly and popular fashion, that the Second Vatican Council was early commandeered and manipulated and infected by modernist, liberalist, and protestantizing persons and ideas. These writings show further that the new liturgy produced by the Vatican Concilium group, under the late Archbishop A. Bugnini, was similarly infected. Especially the New Mass is problematic. It waters down the doctrine that the Eucharist is a true Sacrifice, not just a memorial. It weakens the truth of the Real Presence of Christs victim Body and Blood by demoting the Tabernacle to a corner, by reduced signs of reverence around the Consecration, by giving Communion in the hand, often of women, by cheapering the sacred vessels, by having used six Protestant experts (who disbelieve the Real Presence) in the preparation of the new rite, by encouraging the use of sacro-pop music with guitars, instead of Gregorian chant, and by still further novelties."
To: Maximilian
Well this just about says it all..
"14 Among traditional Catholics, the late Archbishop Lefebvre stands out because he founded the Society of St Pius X (SSPX), a strong society of priests (including six seminaries to date) for the celebration of the traditional Catholic liturgy. Many Catholics who are aware of this may share the opinion that he was excommunicated and that his followers are in schism. There are however solid authorities (including Cardinal Ratzinger, the top theologian in the Vatican) who hold that this is not so. SSPX declares itself fully Roman Catholic, recognizing Pope John Paul II while respectfully maintaining certain serious reservations."
Do you have a reference for the Cardinal Ratzinger statement?
Do you think that SSPX will get some footing since the movie?
8 posted on
03/05/2004 6:49:59 AM PST by
netmilsmom
(Bless the FReepers who helped convince Dad to homeschool!)
To: Maximilian
"It was the old Latin Mass, the traditional Latin Mass -- not the new Mass in Latin. It was the old Catholic Mass that was used until the 1960s." Does anyone know when the "new" Mass really came into full change? I was born in '60, yet I remember vividly what I think of as the old Latin Mass. I remember Mass in Latin until maybe the late '60's, at least in the part of Florida where I grew up (central). Even as a young child I felt like I understood what was going on. The old Mass seemed so HOLY, at least to me. IIRC, the priest did not face the congregation, and communion was done kneeling at a rail at the edge of the altar.
I don't know if Gibson is schismatic, and to be honest, it doesn't matter to me. I think of it as him being someone who never outgrew his love for the holiness he experienced in Mass when said that way. I think the traditional Mass is lovely. Of course, I have to admit I love the "new" Mass, too. In the former I felt His Holiness. In the latter I feel like I am able to approach Him.
11 posted on
03/05/2004 7:01:09 AM PST by
Ohioan from Florida
(The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.- Edmund Burke)
To: Maximilian
Recently, a guest host on Catholic Answers said that he had it from a friend who spoke directly with Mel Gibson that he is a sedevacantist.
12 posted on
03/05/2004 7:03:43 AM PST by
B Knotts
To: Maximilian
btt
78 posted on
03/05/2004 9:14:33 PM PST by
lainde
(Heads up...We're coming and we've got tongue blades!!)
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