San Jose Bishop McGrath Denounced for Heresy by Local Area Priest

St. Joseph's Men Society ^ | February 2004 | Ken Malone

[sinkspur]

McGrath has allowed the moerbists to usurp the term "historical." Is "Acts" not historical because "Luke"probably put words in Peter's mouth? Thucydides did the same for Pericles. That is how the ancients wrote history.

Of course. Events are historical, but the words may have been embellished.

Now, tell me what a "moerbist" is. My big ole 2500 page Webster's unabridged doesn't define it.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

The SSPX realizes that once a universal indult is granted, the Novus Ordo will die a quick, natural death.

Exactly, and the Vatican hierarchy realize the same. I wish I could find the quote by either Cardinal Hamao or Hoyos, stating if a universal indult is granted the New Mass will be gone in ten years.

[sinkspur]

I don't need to explain anything to you and you needn't explain anything to me BUT someday you will have to explain why you are consistantly so hateful and merciless and condescending to those whom you are ordained to minister to.

Are you morphing into an SSPXer?

The SSPX is leading many faithful Catholics astray, colleen. I give as good as I get. You look around here and decide who picks the fights in the Catholic Caucus.

I am NOT ordained to minister to schismatics. In fact, permanent deacons wouldn't be recognized in the SSPX.

Is the SSPX priest wrong in his statement that the bishop who made the above (in italics) is stating/teaching heresy?

No, with qualifications.

[B Knotts]

Well, FR posters notwithstanding, I was just taking Bishop Fellay at his word, and he said that he wanted a universal indult, and that Rome balked. Now, it is entirely possible that the suppression of the Novus Ordo is what they really want, and what they really demand. If so, then anything Rome will offer will never be enough.

I agree with you that suppression of the new Mass is a non-starter. "Spirit of Vatican II" aside, I think there are also some positive results of the Novus Ordo outside of the Western world (e.g. Africa).

[GirlShortstop]

Pleasant gang to deal with, that SSPX, eh?

LOL.  ninenot, c'mon and hum along, you know the words...
schism in the morning,
schism in the evening...

Just a reminder for modest you, you're the master TTGC lyricist.  FReegards.

[sinkspur]

No - McGrath's statement is totally wrong - HE DENIED THE HISTORICITY OF THE GOSPELS.

His actual written words do, you're right. He should have qualified what he wrote.

Consequently the priest you accuse of being schismatic - but who to the best of my knowledge has not been excommunicated by the Church or declared to be in schism - is probably more fully in communion with the Church than is McGrath.

Except that he follows the jurisdiction of bishops who are excommunicated. If he's not an excommunicate, then what is he?

Look, McGrath is wrong as to historicity of events, but not necessarily to historicity of words.

[Maximilian]

In fact, permanent deacons wouldn't be recognized in the SSPX.

Another major advantage identified! Thanks Sinkspur for putting your finger on one of the great things about the SSPX.

[sinkspur]

Well, FR posters notwithstanding, I was just taking Bishop Fellay at his word, and he said that he wanted a universal indult, and that Rome balked.

Fellay talks a good game, but he has either expelled or allowed himself to be talked into expelling the leading proponent of reuinon, a Fr. Aulaigner. He's out of the SSPX, at the insistence, I suspect, of the foam-at-the-mouth hierarch, Richard Williamson. Fellay kinda likes being a big fish in a small pond. After reconciliation, he'd be a nobody.

It is the responsibility of the SSPX to seek reconciliation. They left, remember?

[american colleen]

I just found a phenomenal priest accidentally a couple of weeks ago... he is everything you could want in a priest - Mass is incredible, he is holy and reverent and orthodox - I was almost to the point of despairing... he is in a hospital ministry in a local small hospital - who woulda thunk it? I just hope and pray he gets his own parish soon so we can join and quit being wanderers.

[sinkspur]

Another major advantage identified! Thanks Sinkspur for putting your finger on one of the great things about the SSPX.

Well, it's their loss. They've got circuit-rider priests traversing wide swaths of states, while the Latin Rite has ordained ministers seeing to baptisms, marriages, care of the sick, Eucharistic services in the absence of a priest (the SSPX folks deny themselves daily Eucharist..how nutty!).

Oh, and by the way, when is the SSPX going to conduct a study of how many of its priests have abused minors?

Did you know that NO permanent deacons were identified by the National Review Board as having abused minors? There were some transitional deacons, but I couldn't find any permanent deacons.

And, I read both studies this afternoon.

[LiteKeeper]

THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST

[american colleen]

I don't just blanket condemn the SSPXers and that doesn't mean I am thinking of joining up with them. I hope and pray for a full reconciliation between them and Rome, in fact.

They are not mistaken on some points - this thread being one instance of that - and you would have to have blinders on to say otherwise.

Quite a few non-SSPX bishops and priests and nuns are leading people astray too, sinkspur. Sometimes out in the open but mostly through what they don't say and don't teach. The confusion in the pews is heartbreaking.

You say you "give as good as you get" but I wasn't aware that a deacon of the Catholic Church checked his deaconhood at the parish door when he left for the day.

[rogator]

"Did you know that NO permanent deacons were identified by the National Review Board as having abused minors? "

I am very pleased to hear this. Thank God for the ministry of these fine gentlemen.

Looking at some possible reasons for this makes me wonder; what is the average age at ordination for a permanent deacon and how many homosexuals become deacons?

[sinkspur]

You say you "give as good as you get" but I wasn't aware that a deacon of the Catholic Church checked his deaconhood at the parish door when he left for the day.

How's a deacon supposed to act? "Remember to act mousy" was not in the letter I signed when I petitioned the bishop for ordination.

[B Knotts]

There's a good chance that SOME of the SSPX folks might return, without all those conditions you listed. From talking with some people in the know, I've been told that it's Williamson who's holding things up. He is certainly not amenable to a reconciliation.

There may eventually be a return of large numbers of these people. How many will continue to hang with Williamson is anyone's guess.

I don't think this organization is as monolithic as it appears.

I agree with you. I think there are some cracks already (see the ouster of Fr. Aulaigner). I suspect many of the people in SSPX would like to have it regularized, if possible.

I pray they can be fully rejoined to the Holy See, in a way that preserves the traditional liturgy.

[american colleen]

Was "condescend and name call those of the flock who are not in full communion with the Church" in that letter you signed?

[sinkspur]

Looking at some possible reasons for this makes me wonder; what is the average age at ordination for a permanent deacon and how many homosexuals become deacons?

If one is married, 35 is the minimum age. If one is celibate, 25 is the limit (though I can't imagine a celibate man becoming a deacon; I'd just go on to priesthood).

We have two celibates among the 65 permanent deacons in our diocese, and these are men in their late 60s whose wives died.

I'm only 53, and I could honor my celibacy commitment without hesitation if something happened to my wife.

I could not have said that at 25.

I don't have any national statistics handy.

[sinkspur]

Was "condescend and name call those of the flock who are not in full communion with the Church" in that letter you signed?

No.

Condescension is not a sin. It's unattractive, I suppose, but what you see as condescension I see as calling a spade a spade.

"Schismatic" is not name calling; it is an accurate description of the state of the SSPX.

[Snuffington]

What a weird thread.

Here we have a fairly obvious example of a bishop teaching explicit heresy - for which pehaps the most shocking element is in its lack of subtlety rather than its substance, since we've almost come to expect it.

He's called out on the heresy - but not by one of his own priests. Heaven forbid those should value Christ's eternal Truth above the favor of their bishop! But rather by a priest many Catholics consider a schismatic.

Could lead to an interesting discussion of where God wants his Church to go. Bishops being explicitly heretical is hardly a minor matter, and ought to call for some sort of serious response. But schism is rightly considered a very serious matter as well.

But instead it quickly devolves into the typical "schismatic" versus "modernist" nonsense.

Getting back to basics, what is worse? A heretical bishop, or a schismatic priest? Which is the greater danger to the faith?

[StAthanasiustheGreat]

I think you have misunderstood what I said. I understand and accept the Bishops jurisdiction. Especially if a bishop is in agreement with the Church. I am definitly blessed to live in both the archdiocese of Milwaukee with Archbishop Dolan and the archdiocese of Chicago with Cardinal George. I count myself as incredibly blessed. I am perhaps only wondering why it falls to a priest of SSPX to say about McGrath what is clearly evident. I realize that change takes time, and normally I can live with it, I guess, occasionally I want instant gratification. I have never attended an SSPX Mass, and really don't intend too, unless absolute necessity dictates it.

God Bless