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San Jose Bishop McGrath Denounced for Heresy by Local Area Priest
St. Joseph's Men Society ^ | February 2004 | Ken Malone

Posted on 02/29/2004 1:04:29 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah

On Sunday, Feb. 22, 2004, Rev. Daniel Cooper, pastor of Our Mother of Perpetual Help in Los Gatos, CA, denounced Bishop Patrick McGrath for heresy. The priest was responding to a stand taken by the bishop against the historical truth of the four Gospels

Bishop McGrath wrote the heretical comments as part of an op-ed piece which appeared in the February 1st edition of the San Jose Mercury News. The newspaper also recently featured a number of by-line pieces linking The Passion of the Christ and Mel Gibson to charges of anti-Semitism. Under the title "Its Just a Movie", Bishop McGrath states:

"While the primary source material of the film is attributed to the four gospels, these sacred books are not historical accounts of the historical events that they narrate. They are theological reflections upon the events that form the core of Christian faith and belief."

Father Cooper said the bishop had contradicted official teachings of the church and thereby committed heresy. "Non-Catholic Christians will look down on us" he noted, "since our common thread has always been a belief in the Gospels." Presumably, the priest’s position was taken from church documents such as the Syllabus of Errors and Dei Verbum, Vatican II.

"Holy Mother Church has firmly and with absolute constancy held, and continues to hold, that the four Gospels just named, whose historical character the Church unhesitatingly asserts, faithfully hand on what Jesus Christ, while living among men, really did and taught for their eternal salvation until the day He was taken up into heaven." Second Vatican Council, Dei Verbum 19. Promulgated in 1965.

The Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office at the command of Pope St. Pius X issued the Syllabus of Errors condemning the errors of the Modernists on July 3, 1907 which officially CONDEMNED 65 modernist propositions including #16 "The narrations of John are not properly history, but a mystical contemplation of the Gospel. The discourses contained in his Gospel are theological meditations, lacking historical truth concerning the mystery of salvation." (See also #3,16,29 and 36) etc. Promulgated in 1864.

"I was surprised to hear him take the position he did, but then, how many holy priests do I really know" said one eye witness. "For a supposed schismatic, he was pretty true to the Gospels."

Father Cooper’s chapel is located in the St. Aloysius Retreat Center at 101 Bear Creek Road, Los Gatos, CA within the Diocese of San Jose which is headed by Bishop McGrath. St. Aloysius is operated by the Society of St. Pius X, the largest organization within the Catholic traditionalist movement. Catholic traditionalists, whose number includes Mel Gibson, typically suspend obedience from church office-holders who reject church teachings handed down by their predecessors because of biblical (2 Th 2:15, 1 Co 11:2, Ga 2:11) and various papal injunctions to defend Tradition.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholiclist
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah; Desdemona; sinkspur; narses; Salvation; NYer; sandyeggo; sydney smith; ...
SSPX Priest Criticizes Bishop For Going Against Vatican II


I think many people missed the real story here. Didn't you notice that an SSPX priest is denouncing a bishop, because the bishop is going against the teachings of Vatican II? This is a real ``man bites dog'' story. SSPX- the defenders of Vatican II. Who knew?

41 posted on 02/29/2004 5:31:31 PM PST by nickcarraway (www.yadvashem.org)
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To: sinkspur
Wait, are you for or against Vatican II?
42 posted on 02/29/2004 5:32:49 PM PST by nickcarraway (www.yadvashem.org)
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To: sinkspur
You're in schism.

You've already told me that numerous times, thank-you.

43 posted on 02/29/2004 5:33:11 PM PST by Land of the Irish
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To: netmilsmom
I feel this is a message to me.

Maybe you ARE receiving a message: "Find the true Catholic faith." For the most part you won't find it in any US diocese or in any parish that offers the New Mass.

This movie has helped to clarify the vast chasm that exists between the Catholic faith and the so-called Catholic bishops like this heretic in San Jose and all the rest of the heretics. One the one side of the divide you have traditional Catholics like Mel Gibson making "The Passion" and doing nothing more than staying true to the Catholic faith as it has always been practiced until Vatican II, as Gibson told Diane Sawyer. On the other side of the divide are the leaders of the modernist church who has denounced the movie, made heretical statements in order to defame both the movie and the Gospels, and who are more concerned about currying favor with the Abe Foxman's of the world than they are with the truth of Christ.

"By their fruits you shall know them." Compare the recent abuse report, the priest's death in Albany and the complete collapse into chaos as the fruits on the one side, versus the thrilling story of one man of courage willing to risk $30 million of his own money on a gamble for the sake of Christ and who is doing more to revive Christian faith than the entire catholic hierarchy.

44 posted on 02/29/2004 5:34:40 PM PST by Maximilian
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To: american colleen; Land of the Irish; ultima ratio
I absolutely cannot believe you are a deacon in the Catholic Church. Would you say that about Lutherism or Anglicanism or any of the Protestant demominations?

It depends. If they were as obnoxious as LofI and UR, you bet.

Are the members of the SSPX Christians and your own brothers and sisters?

The Lutherans and Orthodox and other Protestants on this website are not NEARLY has hostile to the Pope and the Church in union with Rome as the SSPX.

How do you explain that?

Protestants are not trying to destroy the Mass at which I worship. Some of these rabid SSPXers are.

45 posted on 02/29/2004 5:35:52 PM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a dog or a cat from an animal shelter! It will save one life, and may save two.)
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To: NWU Army ROTC
The University Center here has finally moved to Valid Matter for the Mass

Look at what you are saying: this University Center has been offering hundreds of invalid Masses to unsuspecting Catholics. You are aware that virtually all the Masses at this location (unless they use different matter for some of them) are invalid, yet you continue to participate and serve on the liturgy committee? And you know that the associate priest strongly prefers to continue offering nothing but invalid matter?

I wonder how you can justify even setting foot on the sidewalk in front of such a place. Clearly it is a locus of evil. What kind of people knowingly supply invalid sacraments to trusting people? What kind of people pass out mere bread and wine while pretending that it is the body and blood of Christ?

Perhaps you feel that you are doing some good there, but my immediate reaction would be to leave as quickly as possible, shake the dust from my shoes, and maybe sprinkle some holy water (obtained from somewhere more trustworthy) around as insurance against demonic oppression following me from my association with such a place.

46 posted on 02/29/2004 5:41:24 PM PST by Maximilian
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To: sinkspur
"Protestants are not trying to destroy the Mass at which I worship."

I could point you to a few web sites which might argue this point.
47 posted on 02/29/2004 5:43:15 PM PST by rogator
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To: Diago
What is wrong with wanting this? I am loyal to John Paul II, have never had anything to do with SSPX, and yet I would love nothng more than to see the Mass of Paul VI suppressed for all time!

The SSPX realizes that once a universal indult is granted, the Novus Ordo will die a quick, natural death. There's no need to suppress it as Paul VI suppressed the Tridentine rite to push his own novel Mass.

By the way, I consider "universal indult" an oxymoron.

Pope St. Pius V gave indults to a few Mass rites that were more than 200 years old. He did not need to issue an indult for the Tridentine rite, the Mass of All Time.

48 posted on 02/29/2004 5:56:17 PM PST by Land of the Irish
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To: sinkspur
"McGrath's statement is wrong, of course, but not completely"

No - McGrath's statement is totally wrong - HE DENIED THE HISTORICITY OF THE GOSPELS.

He is therefore at least a material heretic and thus not in full communion with the Catholic Church - he is probably not a Catholic at all if he starts from the premise of the non-historicity of the Gospels.

If we are justified by Faith, then that means we are Catholics by Faith. A "bishop" who has lost the Faith, if he ever had it, is in de facto schism from the Catholic Church.

Consequently the priest you accuse of being schismatic - but who to the best of my knowledge has not been excommunicated by the Church or declared to be in schism - is probably more fully in communion with the Church than is McGrath. He certainly appears to believe as a Catholic believes with respect to the Gospels.

He may not be incardinated into the local diocese by the local bishop, but he can hardly be so when there is no bishop there to incardinate him. The sede is vacantes.
49 posted on 02/29/2004 6:20:44 PM PST by Tantumergo
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To: sinkspur
There's a good chance that SOME of the SSPX folks might return, without all those conditions you listed.
From talking with some people in the know, I've been told that it's Williamson who's holding things up. He is certainly not amenable to a reconciliation.

There may eventually be a return of large numbers of these people. How many will continue to hang with Williamson is anyone's guess.

I don't think this organization is as monolithic as it appears.

These are just my speculations, from the limited info I have.
50 posted on 02/29/2004 6:26:00 PM PST by Deo volente (God willing, Terri Schiavo will live.)
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To: sinkspur
I don't need to explain anything to you and you needn't explain anything to me BUT someday you will have to explain why you are consistantly so hateful and merciless and condescending to those whom you are ordained to minister to.

"While the primary source material of the film is attributed to the four gospels, these sacred books are not historical accounts of the historical events that they narrate. They are theological reflections upon the events that form the core of Christian faith and belief."

Is the SSPX priest wrong in his statement that the bishop who made the above (in italics) is stating/teaching heresy?

51 posted on 02/29/2004 6:33:30 PM PST by american colleen
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To: NWU Army ROTC
Your obligation as a Catholic is to hold what the Church holds. If the Bishop doesn't agree with the Church, then it's HIS problem.

But in all areas on which the Church and the Bishop are in agreement, you ought to agree with the Bish.

What's the problem???
52 posted on 02/29/2004 6:35:26 PM PST by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: sinkspur
More recent scholarship bears out the thesis that Mt. was written almost the day of the Resurrection--around 30-35 AD.

Peter's narration, transcribed by Mark, was next, around 45-50. Luke follows, and John's was later--around 70AD.

My Oxford edition commmentary was written around 1960, (that's 40 years ago) and gives different, later, dates--and also indicates that Mt. was not first.

Not so. Stuff written in the 1990's tends to support the old "traditional" dating and sequence.

McGrath's comments were erroneous and he ought to say so.

Same with the comments released here by some Ecumeno-Babe--in fact, almost the identical comments. Must be the talking points of the dissenters.
53 posted on 02/29/2004 6:41:00 PM PST by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
Forget that Ferrario stuff--it has NOTHING to do with the "case" made by the author of the article. It has everything to do with Ferrario's power to excommunicate--he didn't have it in the case at hand, and Rome told him so.

I believe, though, that the Church has not formally declared SSPX to be in schism--yet. That's at least partially because some upper-level members of SSPX are trying to prevent such a declaration (others are doing their level-best to win the Schismatic Award of 2004.)

We'll see. IN the meantime, it's prudent to stay away from them unless in dire need.
54 posted on 02/29/2004 6:46:26 PM PST by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: NWU Army ROTC
REmoving every single priest who is mal-formed on liturgical principles/practices would leave Chicago (and Milwaukee) short by about half their priests.

Better to do fraternal corrections, and issue specific guidelines/timelines.
55 posted on 02/29/2004 6:50:42 PM PST by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: ninenot
Do Cardinals Ratzinger and Cassidy have the power to excommunicate? Cardinal Cassidy specifically stated the SSPX situation is an internal church matter.

Anecdotally, Hoyos and another Cardinal told the SSPX bishops at their last meeting that they do not consider the SSPX to be schismatic. I do not understand why certain posters here preach fidelity to the Magisterium but blatantly ignore their words on the SSPX situation.

56 posted on 02/29/2004 6:52:22 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Maximilian; NWU Army ROTC
Pleasant gang to deal with, that SSPX, eh?

57 posted on 02/29/2004 6:53:46 PM PST by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: sinkspur
McGrath has allowed the moerbists to usurp the term "historical." Is "Acts" not historical because "Luke"probably put words in Peter's mouth? Thucydides did the same for Pericles. That is how the ancients wrote history.
58 posted on 02/29/2004 6:55:01 PM PST by RobbyS (Latin nothing of atonment.)
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To: ninenot; Canticle_of_Deborah
IN the meantime, it's prudent to stay away from them unless in dire need.

The faithful have been in dire need for the past 25 years.

59 posted on 02/29/2004 6:56:27 PM PST by Land of the Irish
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To: ninenot
IN the meantime, it's prudent to stay away from them unless in dire need.

P.S. I AM in dire need. The SSPX priests have been more help to me than the diocesan hierarchy (may God have mercy on their souls for their cowardice and betrayal).

60 posted on 02/29/2004 6:59:21 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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