Posted on 02/21/2004 6:51:51 PM PST by Knock3Times
When I took out all the fancy PhD words this was what I got. The author will counter the Bible because modern science says it is so. Pretty lame excuse.
PS-We've never wanted or needed to spank our child but there are PLENTY of people who are not as fortunate.
Deborah, I'm really surprised you're posting this nonsense. First of all, "study after study" indicates that virtually all children have been spanked at some point. So where do they get this mythical control group? None of this BS "data" would stand up to the least scrutiny.
And the weirdo, Grep Popcak.
I do believe one thing, though: sometimes, for some children, spanking is absolutely the right thing to do.
The voice of experience speaking. Parents with real experience dealing with various personalities in a variety of children don't fall for this kind of stuff from Popcak. Unfortunately, it does influence new parents who don't know any better.
By the way, the "good science" Popcak throws up is not science at all. It is "social science," for which real scientists have well-justified contempt, and it is perpetrated by the same people who hang out at DU. That's worth thinking about.
Yes, it certainly is worth thinking about. There is absolutely an agenda to try to make spanking illegal. The "New World Order" types are working on it through various means. For example, in England they have tried to outlaw spanking by means of applying the European parliament bill of rights. Their real goal is to destroy the family unit and substitute government control of children. They want to break up your family and get your kids under their control.
And yet despite their clear and obvious agenda, they can't come up with any hard science to support their position. The "data" is all garbage. But here is one hard fact that has mountains of data supporting it: children only thrive in a traditional family structure. There is a mountain of data documenting the real and undeniable harm that happens to children through divorce and single parenthood. So any initiative which harms the family structure in any way will bring untold suffering and misery to children.
Disciplining children is neither "child beating" nor "hurting the innocent." The Bible tells us that it is "saving their souls." The worst abuse you can perpetrate is to allow their souls to go to Hell for all eternity where "the fire will never stop burning."
This hits the nail on the head. Popcak can ignore the clear message of the Bible and the experience of generations of parents if he wants to. That's his choice as a parent. But shut up already about telling other parents how to raise their children. This is nothing but an extension of the "nanny state."
This puts it in a nutshell. You can choose to believe the word of God in the Bible, along with the experience of parents over thousands of years, or you can choose to believe the latest "study" that will be contradicted by another study next week. Anyone who tries to use "scientific studies" as the guide to raising children will be in for a big shock, and their poor unfortunate children will be in for a wild ride as the parents change their minds every week based on the latest data to be released.
Who's "bragging?" Sometimes it is necessary to get a child's attention with a sharp strike on the butt. Once or twice is all I ever had to do. Yes, they cried, but they weren't injured.
You're overwrought, with your hysterical "inflicting pain" and "monster" and "beating".
Spanking is not abuse and the fact that you think it is shows you simply don't know the distinction (but, then you've never been a parent, either).
Using shock terminology is not going to help support your position. Spanking children is not "violence." It is the loving care of parents for those entrusted to them by God.
I cringe when I hear grown people brag about beating 30-40 lb children and making them cry.
This is absurd and a calumny on parents. Parents don't "brag" about spanking their children. They realize that it is a duty of their state in life which has been given to them by God.
What kind of monster enjoys inflicting pain and making a child, particularly their own child cry?
God's ways are not man's ways. God has ordained that those who are not corrected by words will be corrected by "inflicting pain." This is likewise incorporated in the Rule of St. Benedict which formed the foundation of Western European civilization. Do you look upon God as a "monster"? Will you place your own opinions above the will of God? He inflicts infinitely more pain than any parent ever does. He has ordained eternal fire for those who disobey Him. The Bible tells parents to chastise their children so that a small amount of correction now will prevent an infinite amount of punishment later.
It's sick.
Those who think they know better than God are the ones who cause the sickness in society. They are the ones who have brought our civilization to the point of collapse. Morally, it is already beyond the point of collapse. Desiring to know better than God was the original sin, and it is still being repeated over and over today.
This is hilarious, Deb! You don't know what you're talking about.
Why would a kid hate being disciplined?
There's a difference between abuse and spanking!
I don't get scared away from what is right by name calling. No amount of insults will change the clear and definite words of the Bible, nor will they alter the experience of parents over thousands of years.
You can deal with God later.
And when I do, I hope that I can claim that I was faithful to His teaching, not substituting my own "wisdom" for His word.
I hope your children don't grow up to hate you. I would.
The only way to have children who love you is to make sure they are living a life of sanctifying grace, for even 1 mortal sin makes it impossible to have true love. Children don't hate parents who discipline them, on the contrary they will love those parents to the extent that the parents were able to teach them the belief and practice of the Catholic faith, and to communicate to them the reality of the life of the soul. If they begin to live a life of sin, however, and they lose sanctifying grace in their souls, then they will hate their parents. And unless they repent and return to a life of sanctifying grace, they will hate their parents, and God, and everyone else for all eternity.
That's not what I'm talking about.
the fact that you think it is shows you simply don't know the distinction (but, then you've never been a parent, either).
Yeah, you're right. I'm not knowledgeable enough to be a parent yet I was qualified to take care of the victims of abusers. They got better too. Go figure.
The fact is I grew up in hell and endured things I choose not to repeat on this forum. I know full damn well what some people's definition of "spanking" is, and it's not a simple swat on the rear end.
Parental discipline is not "beating up children." And it's a heresy to say that we only read the New Testament and ignore the Old Testament. There are millions of topics upon which we have no recorded words of Jesus.
Well, at risk of losing my only friend on this thread, Max, small children are incapable of committing mortal sins. Back-talk and disobeying parents aren't mortal sins anyway.
This is a more a matter of discipline than morality. Children must learn that they can't do whatever they want. They also must learn to accept legitimate authority.
Worse than spanking is threatening a kid with hell if he doesn't do what you say. He'll learn to hate God and the Church for lying to him when he finds out the truth. Or, he'll just think it's all a joke.
Well, beating a child where welts form or to the point of terror is child abuse, I agree with you. And, yes, I know some people go too far in that direction.
So, thanks for the clarification. I certainly never went that far with my two.
First of all, this way of thinking is what leads to total loss of faith. Secondly, in no place does the Bible ever contain a positive injunction to own slaves. The practice of slavery existed at the time of the Bible. That is not that same thing as the Bible telling people positively that God requires slavery. If the Bible did so, then I would agree that slavery would be required today.
While it's not relevant to the issue addressed in this post, the whole "slavery in the Bible" thing is often taken out of context. The same word in Latin "servus" means both "servant" and "slave." Even in the United States indentured servitude has been common. What was unique was the historical situation of black slaves from Africa brought here to the New World who were considered non-persons and treated as virtually non-human. That was not the case for slavery in the Bible.
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