Posted on 02/21/2004 6:51:51 PM PST by Knock3Times
Yes, that's right. The practice of spanking is not to prevent individual instances of mortal sins, but in general so that we can follow the Biblical injunction to "raise them up in the way they should go, and when they are grown they will not stray far from it."
This is a more a matter of discipline than morality. Children must learn that they can't do whatever they want. They also must learn to accept legitimate authority.
Yes, I agree again. But ultimately morality will be based upon learning those lessons. One who never learns that they can't do whatever they want and who never learns to accept legitimate authority is going to find themselves falling into a multitude of sins, mortal and otherwise.
Worse than spanking is threatening a kid with hell if he doesn't do what you say. He'll learn to hate God and the Church for lying to him when he finds out the truth. Or, he'll just think it's all a joke.
I agreed on the first 2 points, but I disagree here. This IS the truth, it's neither lying nor a joke. The 4th commandment, "Honor they father and thy mother" comes before the 5th,"Thou shalt not kill." Defiance of authority is the root of most of the problems with children today, and the situation we observe of them growing into morally lawless adults.
There was an excellent article in the past couple weeks about the way in which the best predictor of children's behavior was their degree of peer-orientation versus their parental orientation. Once children become peer oriented, all of their effort goes into their status within that group, and it's virtually impossible for parent or other adults to reach them or even communicate. This indicates the foundational status of the 4th commandment for raising psychologically and morally healthy children. And it indicates why we shouldn't dismiss violations of the 4th commandment. Perhaps we needn't go to the Old Testament extreme of stoning disobedient children, but neither should we dismiss the potential gravity of these sins.
I am very glad to hear this. Let's take a little trip back to the gospels.
Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon your shoulders and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble of heart.
Matthew 18:6-10 And he that shall receive one such little child in my name, receiveth me. But he that shall scandalize one of these little ones that believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be drowned in the depth of the sea. Woe to the world because of scandals. For it must needs be that scandals come: but nevertheless woe to that man by whom the scandal cometh.......... See that you despise not one of these little ones: for I say to you, that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 18:27-33 And the lord of that servant being moved with pity, let him go and forgave him the debt. But when that servant was gone out, he found one of his fellow-servants that owed him an hundred pence: and laying hold of him, he throttled him, saying: Pay what thou owest. ......... Now his fellow servants seeing what was done, were very much grieved, and they came, and told their lord all that was done. Then his lord called him: and said to him: Thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all the debt, because thou besoughtest me: Shouldst not thou then have had compassion also on thy fellow servant, even as I had compassion on thee?
Mark 10:13-16 And they brought to him young children, that he might touch them. And the disciples rebuked them that brought them. Whom when Jesus saw, he was much displeased and saith to them: Suffer the little children to come unto me and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Amen I say to you, whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall not enter into it. And embracing them and laying his hands upon them, he blessed them.
Children create their concept of God from their parents. Who wants to worship a cruel, abusive God?
WHAT?
Yes, and there is nothing more opposed to "receiving these little ones in Christ's name" than the nanny-state welfare system that is working to destroy the traditional family, of which the anti-spanking mentality is a significant part. You are supporting their efforts. The intrusion of the welfare state into the sacred precinct of the family is a big part of the reason why every single Western nation is failing to reproduce itself.
Only a father and a mother married to each other can properly fulfill Christs's injunction to "receive these little ones." And only they can raise them properly to become "citizens of heaven" which is the goal of parents. Parents are the only ones with the God-given role to fulfill the requirements of raising children so that their guardian angels can one day rejoice with them in heaven. Replacing parents with the welfare state is a sure prescription for scandalising these little ones.
Who wants to worship a cruel, abusive God?
Does God send souls to Hell where they will suffer for all eternity, or does He not?
It's not clear to me what you thought you were refuting.
Yes, and apparently from your abusive example you want to give them a push.
Yes.
So then, is He a cruel and abusive God?
You are picking and choosing the Scriptures you like which support your abuse rather than looking at the entire Biblical message. Anyone can go through the Bible and find support for slavery, incest, murder, abuse, etc. That is an erroneous method of interpreting Scripture.
Only if you do not believe in free will. If one believes in free will we send ourselves there.
He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him. (Prov. 13:24)
Do not withhold discipline from the child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die. Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death. (Prov. 23:13-14)
The rod of correction imparts wisdom, but a child left to himself disgraces his mother. (Prov. 29:15)
"Your rod and your staff, they comfort me" (Psalms 23:4)
Great find!
I've also read that the word "rod" and "staff" is actually translated from the same word.
And cut the condescension. I've taken care of too many screwed up kids from parents who couldn't draw the distinction.
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