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Feminised Catholicism could mean end of Church
Sunday Business Post Online ^ | February 15, 2004 | Kieron Wood

Posted on 02/18/2004 5:36:51 AM PST by johnb2004

"By driving men away from the Church, this feminisation has undermined Christian fatherhood. A man cannot be a Christian father unless he is a Christian first, and even fatherhood has been undermined in the Churches. In parishes, fathers are ignored or denigrated. Priests boast that they became priests because of their mothers. Don't they have fathers?"

(Excerpt) Read more at archives.tcm.ie ...


TOPICS: Activism; Apologetics; Catholic; Current Events; Ecumenism; Evangelical Christian; Moral Issues; Orthodox Christian; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Theology
KEYWORDS: altarboys; church; father; fathers; fathersrights; females; feminazis; feminisedcatholics; feminism; feminists; male; men
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1 posted on 02/18/2004 5:36:51 AM PST by johnb2004
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To: johnb2004
"Ten years ago, the Swiss authorities conducted a survey to find out how religion was passed from one generation to the next. The poll found that in families where the father was a regular churchgoer and the mother was non-practising, 44 per cent of the children eventually became regular churchgoers."

Wait a minute. Wait just one minute.

That can't be true, because as all good Americans know, "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle."

Thank goodness we finally got past that old "Let your women be silent in church" phallocratic gynophobia, eh?
2 posted on 02/18/2004 6:34:11 AM PST by dsc
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To: Diago; narses; Loyalist; BlackElk; american colleen; saradippity; Polycarp; Dajjal; ...
This is a really, really outstanding article. It's one of the best I've seen at analyzing the situation in the Church, and amazingly it is published in a secular source. Although "secular" has a slightly different meaning in Ireland which is one of the few countries to retain some small remnants of Catholic culture.
3 posted on 02/18/2004 7:00:52 AM PST by Maximilian
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To: johnb2004
Here is the whole article:

Sunday, February 15, 2004 :





Feminised Catholicism could mean end of Church


By Kieron Wood

The Catholic Church in Ireland faces the worst crisis in its history.The scandal of clerical sexual abuse has compounded the catastrophic decline in vocations to the priesthood.

All but one of the diocesan seminaries have closed and a generation of religious illiterates is being produced by the current catechetical programme. The pews are emptying more rapidly than ever before. In some Dublin parishes, Sunday Mass attendance has fallen to well below 10 per cent.

The new Co-adjutor Archbishop of Dublin, Diarmuid Martin, has an answer to this accelerating trend.Women.

Martin, a former top flyer in the Vatican, is expected to take over from Cardinal Desmond Connell as head of the country's biggest and most important diocese within the next two months. His views on the role of women in the Catholic Church were made abundantly clear from the moment he stepped off the plane from Rome.

In his first session with journalists last August, he said women had told him they didn't feel fully welcome in the Church and he wanted to address that.

Martin's intentions were soon realised. At his liturgical reception in Dublin's Pro-Cathedral the following day, almost all the liturgical tasks - except celebrating Mass - were carried out by women. The lectors, the cantor, many of the servers and all those bringing up the gifts were female. Indeed, it seemed as if there was no place for men in Martin's Church, except presiding at the altar.

The gesture did not go unnoticed. Last week, during a talk at All Hallows College entitled `A listening and humble Church at the service of the people of God', Martin revealed that he had received letters of protest following the ceremony. "Many people wrote to me after I spoke in the Pro-Cathedral to tell me to stop running after the fashionable trend of talking about women in the Church," he said.

Despite the criticism, the archbishop stuck to his guns. "New structures for evangelisation must reflect on the position of women in the Church," he said. "I am acutely aware of the expectations of so many women in the Church today, of their impatience and at times of their anger at promises not being fulfilled.

"It is easy to say that all other offices in the Church except ministerial priesthood are open to women, and then to remain blocked in a closed, male clerical system. There is still a long way to go here. A Church deprived of the evangelising contribution of women is working on less than one cylinder.

"Our parish communities and our diocesan structures need to change. Prejudices and fears by men, especially priests, need to be addressed."

Martin said that it was easy to create "a special form of political correctness in religious matters, which is equally as empty as its secular counterpart, because it shares the same philosophical foundations." So is the appeasement of disaffected Catholic women a "special form of political correctness", or is it really the answer to today's fast emptying churches?

Whatever Martin's personal views, he has made clear that, as archbishop, he will support Catholic Church teaching on the ordination of female priests. Ten years ago, Pope John Paul reiterated that the Church had no power to confer the ministerial priesthood on women.

Unlike the question of married priests, which is a disciplinary issue, the ordination of women is a doctrinal matter and is no longer open for discussion, despite polls which suggest that many Catholics would support the ordination of women.

Certainly the Irish Catholic hierarchy has been slow in realising the full potential of women to fill senior positions, such as diocesan administrator.

The question is whether the appointment of women to a handful of senior jobs will win back those who no longer practise their faith - and whether the future of the Catholic Church depends on wooing women.

Ten years ago, the Swiss authorities conducted a survey to find out how religion was passed from one generation to the next. The poll found that in families where the father was a regular churchgoer and the mother was non-practising, 44 per cent of the children eventually became regular churchgoers.

But if the father was non-practising - even if the mother went to church regularly - only 2 per cent of their children would become regular worshippers, while more than 60 per cent of the children would never attend church.

Commenting on the results of the research, author and Anglican vicar Robbie Low said: "The results are shocking, but they should not be surprising. They are about as politically incorrect as it is possible to be, but they simply confirm what psychologists, criminologists, educationalists and traditional Christians know. You cannot buck the biology of the created order.

"A father's influence, from the determination of a child's sex by the implantation of his seed to the funerary rites surrounding his passing, is out of all proportion to his allotted - and severely diminished - role in western liberal society.

"We are ministering in Churches that accepted fatherlessness as a norm - and even an ideal. Emasculated liturgy, gender-free Bibles and a fatherless flock are increasingly on offer. In response, these Churches' decline has, unsurprisingly, accelerated."

In the Church of England,where women priests and feminist theology became com monplace in the 1990s, the ratio of men to women in the pews has dropped from near parity to a ratio approaching one-to-two. Of the 300,000 who left the Church of England during the "decade of evangelism", around 200,000 are reckoned to have been men.

The picture is not far different in the United States. According to a survey by pollster George Barna, 43 per cent of American men attended church in 1992. Within four years, that had dropped to 28 per cent. Jesuit priest Fr Patrick Arnold said: "It is not at all unusual to find a female-to-male ratio of two to one, or three to one. I have seen ratios in parish churches as high as seven to one."

Feminist theologian Rosemary Radford Reuther maintains that women now make up between 60 and 65 per cent of the active churchgoers in countries like Ireland. Wherever western Christianity has spread, the Church has become feminised. The only religions today with practising male majorities are eastern Orthodoxy, Islam, Orthodox Judaism and eastern creeds such as Buddhism.

According to some observers, feminism has permeated the very highest echelons of the Church. American writer Leon Podles, author of The Church Impotent: The Feminization of Christianity, said: "In attempting to demonstrate to the feminists the importance of women in the Catholic Church, the current Pope, for all his excellencies and orthodoxy, has undermined theroleofmen in the Church. He talks about mutual subordination, but has never mentioned the father as the head of the family.

"Western Christianity has become part of the feminine world from which men feel they must distance themselves to attain masculinity. That is why men stay away from church, especially when they see that the men involved in church tend to be less masculine.

"Psychological studies have detected a connection between femininity in men and interest in religion. There may even be a physical difference. Among men, football players and movie actors have the highest testosterone level, ministers [of religion], the lowest.

"By driving men away from the Church, this feminisation has undermined Christian fatherhood. A man cannot be a Christian father unless he is a Christian first, and even fatherhood has been undermined in the Churches. In parishes, fathers are ignored or denigrated. Priests boast that they became priests because of their mothers. Don't they have fathers?"

One of the most far-reaching attempts to placate feminist critics in recent years has been the introduction of altar girls. But analysts observe that the custom of females in the sanctuary has no precedent in Catholic liturgical history, and has driven a wedge between the Catholic Church and its closest ecumenical partners, the Orthodox Churches, which remain firm in their opposition to feminist influence.

American commentator Fr Brian Harrison, speaking at a seminar in New Jersey, said: "There has been a huge drive for altar girls among liberal Catholics, and it is bishops, after all, who are the decisionmakers. They, not the rest of us, are the ones who have to bear the brunt of the feminist rage and rhetoric against the `patriarchal' Church, and have to formulate some sort of response to these women's ceaseless and strident demands.

"I suspect that the enthusiasm for altar girls on the part of some generally conservative bishops probably springs not so much from any deep liturgical, historical or spiritual reflection on the intrinsic merits or demerits of that innovation, but rather from the feeling that, as pastors, they should to some extent be responsive to popular demand.

"As a result, instead of reflecting the sublime harmony of the communion of saints, a foretaste of heaven itself, the sanctuary comes to symbolise an earthly battlefield in the new cold war against `patriarchy'."

This artificially-contrived `battle' between men and women in the Church is the antithesis of Catholicism. The problems of the Church will not be resolved by placating women at the expense of men, but by encouraging that `iconic complementarity' between the sexes urged in Pope John Paul's 1995 Letter to Women.

Martin accepts that "a stronger feminine face in the Church require[s] an authentic masculine face alongside it", but adds that "masculinity must, of course, not be confused with patriarchy". However, if that battle against `patriarchy' results in the estrangement of the remnant of faithful male Catholics, the battle for the future of the Church will be lost.

As Low put it: "The Churches are losing men and, if the Swiss figures are correct, are therefore losing children. You cannot feminise the Church and keep the men - and you cannot keep the children if you do not keep the men."

comment@sbpost.ie


4 posted on 02/18/2004 7:03:39 AM PST by Maximilian
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To: kosta50; FormerLib
The only religions today with practising male majorities are eastern Orthodoxy,...

There was something written about this before. Even a book I think. About the masculinity of the Orthodox church.

5 posted on 02/18/2004 7:07:39 AM PST by MarMema
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To: Maximilian
One of the scary facts for haters of Christianity in the pop culture is Mel Gibson's unapologetically masculine approach to Catholicism. It is this tough-minded dimension in his "Passion" film that trumps anything ever done before--and may well be instrumental in requickening the failing faith of millions.
6 posted on 02/18/2004 7:20:15 AM PST by ultima ratio
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To: Maximilian
The Podles work will continue to be ignored by the ignorant.

The more immediate impact of feminization, of course, is in the political life of the USA. GWB resisted it only a few times--notably 9/11's aftermath--but has returned to it.

As to the Bishops: they don't get it at all, with the exception of Bruskewitz. There ARE no 'altar skirts' in the Diocese of Lincoln.
7 posted on 02/18/2004 7:22:23 AM PST by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: Maximilian; Siobhan
Excellent commentary, Max and thank you for it.

I agree with it 100%

Although the premise holds true everywhere, the Catholic Church in Ireland, being smaller and nowadays (unlike the persecution of it until less than 100 years ago) not subject to other "competing forms of religion" is an interesting study.

Is Ireland still a Catholic country?

The answer may appear obvious in a nation where almost two-thirds of the population attends Mass once a week.

But a leading Catholic academic says research shows that Irish attitudes towards religion are changing.

The question was posed by Father Andrew Greeley, an American priest who lectures in sociology at the universities of Chicago and Arizona.

If the proper measures of faith are acceptance of church authority and adherence to the church's sexual and reproductive ethic, then the Irish are no longer Catholic

Father Andrew Greeley
Writing in the religious magazine America, Father Greeley points to the social and economic changes that have taken place in the Irish Republic.

He says it is no longer the rural, agricultural, pious Catholic country it one was. Now, as the "emerald tiger", it has one of the highest standards of living in Europe.

The leadership of the Catholic Church might have seen that this would create religious challenges, says Father Greeley.

Instead, "serenely confident in its absolute power", the Irish hierarchy was content to issue solemn warnings about the dangers of secularism and consumerism.

Measuring Catholicism

Recent surveys had raised questions about the decline of Catholicism in Ireland.

"If the proper measures of Catholicism are faith and devotion, then the Irish are still Catholic," says Father Greeley.

Father Greeley's research
94% of the Irish believe in God
85% believe in heaven and miracles
78% accept there is life after death
40% believe that abortion is always wrong
30% that premarital sex is always wrong
60% that same-sex relations are always wrong

"There has been no change in their belief in God, heaven, miracles and life after death in the last decade, and church attendance rates are still the highest in Europe, and have not declined either.

"If, on the other hand, the proper measures of faith are acceptance of church authority and adherence to the church's sexual and reproductive ethic, then the Irish are no longer Catholic - but then neither are any other people in Europe, including the Italians and the Poles.

"Like many other Catholics all over the world, the Irish are still Catholic, but now on their own terms," Father Greeley argues.

'Too much power'

Father Greeley says the research showed that 94% of the Irish believe in God, 85% believe in heaven and miracles, and 78% accept there is life after death.

They don't think much of the organised church, but poor Father Paddy down the road is a grand fellow all together.

But only 40% cent believe that abortion is always wrong, 30% that premarital sex is always wrong, and 60% that same-sex relations are always wrong.

The feeling that the church has too much power had increased, and the Irish were caught up in the emerging conviction, among devout Catholics all over the world, that the church had no right to try to control their private lives.

"If sex and authority are what Catholicism is about, and many will contend that they are, then the Irish are no longer Catholic," says Father Greeley.

"But neither is anyone else."

Trusting priests

Father Greeley says university education has had little impact on attitudes, despite the popular notion that exposing young men and women to a largely secular education would have a negative impact on their faith.

In an "astonishing" finding, the highest level of confidence in the local priest was among young people.

Only 7% of those born in the 1970's had a great deal of confidence in the church, but 70% had high confidence in their local priests.

"They don't think much of the organised church, but poor Father Paddy down the road is a grand fellow all together," he says.

"The local priest is still an important person in Ireland, even to the young, though almost certainly in a very different role."

The good news is that abortion is still illegal in Ireland and I pray to God that the people reject the secular culture and keep it that way.

In this same vein, there is a book that I keep meaning to read "GOODBYE TO CATHOLIC IRELAND: HOW THE IRISH LOST THE CIVILIZATION THEY CREATED" by Mary Kenny.

8 posted on 02/18/2004 7:26:04 AM PST by american colleen
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To: ninenot; maximillian
The Podles work will continue to be ignored by the ignorant.

Book Description
The current preoccupation with the role of women in the church obscures the more serious problem of the perennial absence of men. A Provocative new book argues that Western churches have become "women's clubs," that the emasculation of Christianity is dangerous for the church and society, and that a masculine presence can and must be restored. After documenting the highly feminized state of Western Christianity, Dr. Podles identifies the masculine traits that once characterized the Christian life but are now commonly considered incompatible with it.

In an original and challenging account, he traces feminization to three contemporaneous medieval sources: the writings of St. Bernard of Clairvaux, the rise of scholasticism, and the expansion of female monasticism. He contends that though masculinity has been marginalized within Christianity, it cannot be expunged from human society. If detached from Christianity, it reappears as a substitute religion, with unwholesome and even horrific consequences. The church, too, is diminished by its emasculation. Its spirituality becomes individualistic and erotic, tending toward universalism and quietism. In his concluding assessment of the future of men in the church, Dr. Podles examines three aspects of Christianity-through which its virility might be restored. In the otherwise stale and overworked field of "gender studies," The Church Impotent is the only book to confront the lopsidedly feminine cast of modern Christianity with a profound analysis of its historical and sociological roots. Dr. Podles presents the fruit of his meticulous scholarship in a lucid and readable style thoroughly accessible to the non-specialist.

9 posted on 02/18/2004 7:33:36 AM PST by american colleen
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To: american colleen
Very interesting statistics. I'm afraid that Ireland may be merely behind the times and will soon catch up to other European countries in terms of choosing the secular state over the Catholic Church. Spain was just as devout as Ireland a few years ago, and now the collapse there has been appallingly complete.

The scary part of the original article was the way that the high-fliers slated for top positions in Ireland go off to Rome and come back with programs to put women in all the positions of authority in the Church. It's clear that the rot is starting from the top down and the hierarchy is corrupting the rest of the Church.
10 posted on 02/18/2004 7:40:14 AM PST by Maximilian
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To: johnb2004
The feminisation of Christianity is one of the primary reasons for success of Islam in black communities.

Who told you that? Was it Satan?
We decided just last Wednesday at the Ladies Tea
that men are perfectly welcome at church… if they behave.

11 posted on 02/18/2004 7:41:48 AM PST by Barnacle ("It is as it was." JPII)
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To: american colleen
In an original and challenging account, he traces feminization to three contemporaneous medieval sources: the writings of St. Bernard of Clairvaux, the rise of scholasticism, and the expansion of female monasticism.

In his otherwise interesting and provocative analysis, this explanation has been controversial and questionable. It's a pretty big leap from men not attending Church to St. Bernard of Clairvaux.

12 posted on 02/18/2004 7:44:23 AM PST by Maximilian
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To: ninenot
There are no altar-skirts in the Diocese of Arlington. That, thanks to the late Bishops Keating and Walsh. I don't trust Loverde...
13 posted on 02/18/2004 7:44:52 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Chief Engineer, Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemens' Club)
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To: Maximilian
Even in my own parish I can't think of one "ministry" that is led by a man. Even the "pastoral associate" is a liberal nun. All this puts me off, and I am a woman.

Poor Ireland. I learned my faith at the knee of my mother's father... a Kerry man - a wonderful, loving and faith-filled man. What's funny (as in odd) is that each one of his married children eventually divorced and remarried.

14 posted on 02/18/2004 7:46:33 AM PST by american colleen
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To: american colleen
the rise of scholasticism

Scholasticism has always been very masculine. This is the kind of thinking that appeals to men: realistic, solid, coming to hard conclusions, not vague, airy-fairy or nebulous. The personalism of JPII, on the other hand, is guaranteed to drive any man screaming for the exits.

15 posted on 02/18/2004 7:47:55 AM PST by Maximilian
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To: johnb2004
a wedge between the Catholic Church and its closest ecumenical partners, the Orthodox Churches, which remain firm in their opposition to feminist influence.

Yes, the Holy Orthodox Church, the One, Holy, Apostolic and Catholic Church...remains true to the Holy Tradition and the Church Fathers, "and the gates of hell will not overcome it." Amen.

The pope is correct: the Church has no authority to ordain women if it wants to remain the Church. This is not a fashion statement.

Orthodox Cathedral, Holy Communion (bread and wine, inside of an Orthodox Church

16 posted on 02/18/2004 7:50:20 AM PST by kosta50
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To: american colleen
What's funny (as in odd) is that each one of his married children eventually divorced and remarried.

I've noticed the same thing growing up in a parish where you were considered odd if your name didn't start with "Mc" or "O'" something. The ball was entirely dropped from one generation to the next. None of my 3 sisters are validly married. My personal theory is that the faith was taken for granted as a fact of life, and all the emphasis was placed on worldly success. We've forgotten that worldly success and the faith are incompatible. No man can serve 2 masters.

17 posted on 02/18/2004 7:52:21 AM PST by Maximilian
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To: MarMema
Don't keep statistics. Orthodoxy is concerned only with our salvation, for all humanity, male and female. No time for trendy fads.
18 posted on 02/18/2004 7:58:17 AM PST by kosta50
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To: Maximilian
My personal theory is that the faith was taken for granted as a fact of life, and all the emphasis was placed on worldly success. We've forgotten that worldly success and the faith are incompatible.

I recently came to a very similar conclusion concerning both my and my wife's siblings. It has made quite an impact on how and what I teach my children.

19 posted on 02/18/2004 8:05:45 AM PST by FormerLib ("Homosexual marriage" is just another route to anarchy.)
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To: kosta50
All you're doing is pissing people off.
20 posted on 02/18/2004 8:07:15 AM PST by Barnacle ("It is as it was." JPII)
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