[Dr. Eckleburg]

I just do not understand why people think that God drawing you is a fate worse than death.

LOL!

Taken to an absurd extreme, what if men really are puppets of God like the Arminians warn?

Is that the very worst thing anyone can imagine?

The fact that God is in control and life is proceeding according to His will should be cause for rejoicing.

Some people are never satisfied, I guess.

[Gamecock]

Taken to an absurd extreme, what if men really are puppets of God like the Arminians warn?

Is that the very worst thing anyone can imagine?

Cost of a Bible: Free Cost of an RC Sproul Book: $12.50

Cost of Sunday Suit: $500.00

Quip by Dr E that gets right to the heart of the matter: Priceless

[Corin Stormhands]

Is that the very worst thing anyone can imagine?

Gotta love that Calvinist attitude that says "to hell with the rest of the planet, as long as I get in."

Sorry if you see that as a flame Dr. E. But that's always how your posts read to me.

[P-Marlowe]

It is not God drawing you that is the fate worse than death to the Arminian. The Arminian/Wesleyan knows full well that they cannot come to God lest they be drawn by the holy spirit. You obviously don't understand Arminian/Wesleyan teachings. I don't know if it is deliberate or if you are merely ignorant.

God drawing a man to him is what we as non-Calvinists pray for. We pray that God will draw the unsaved to him. The fate worse than death is the Calvinist position that God would, despite our prayers and despite our supplications, absolutely and unconditionally refuse to draw that person to him, because he has simply chosen him for eternal damnation from before the foundation of the earth.

The fate worse than death is the eternal damnation of those who never had any hope of salvation because God never wanted them to have that hope.

We cling to 1 Tim 2:4 because it shows our God to be a loving God who would have all men to be saved. We also recognize a sovereign God who cannot and will not allow unforgiven sin into his presence. There is no contradiction there. There is no dimunation of God's sovereignty if God lays down rules for the application of his grace and those who refuse to accept those rules pay the consequences. God has sovereignly given to all men the opportunity to be saved. God has sovereignly stated that he will accept all who come to him on those terms. God knows who they will be and has sovereignly predestined those whom he has foreknown will come to him to be justified, sanctified and glorified.

That is the Gospel. That is the good news. That you can be saved. Any one of you. Jesus is knocking and all you have to do is answer the door. And you CAN. God is not preventing you from answering the door. And God really loves YOU and really wants you to answer it. Yes there is good news. The keys to heaven are within your grasp. Reach out and grab them. And if you refuse, then you have no one but yourself to blame. That is the Good news. That is the Gospel.

For the Calvinist there is no good news. Just news. Either you are one of the lucky chosen or you are one of the unlucky damned and there isn't a damned thing you can do about it.