My extensive search for Jesus, and how I found Mel Gibson at the end of it.

Florida SOUNDOFF.com ^ | 02-02-04 | John Grasmeier

[AAABEST]

For what it's worth.

[AAABEST]

ping

[Joe Brower]

Wowser. Brother, all I can say is, "Amen"!

[AAABEST]

Information on traditional SSPX services near you HERE

If you'd ever care to join me one night JoeBrother you're more than welcome. Services (right down the road from me) are Sunday nights at 5:30 PM.

We'll make a day of it. Bring the whole family, we'll make you dinner.

[AAABEST]

Ping

[Romulus]

If your priest is a one of the enemy’s infiltrators that have penetrated our church or a God hating homosexual who is waking up with his boyfriend Sunday morning before putting his hands on your communion wafer, you are not receiving the body of Christ.

Donatists

[ultima ratio]

I will surprise everybody--I did not care much for this essay which to my view is excessively sentimental. There is an expression for the kind of response this individual has had towards the old Mass--spiritual ice cream. That is to say, these are nice feelings on a personal level, but they are not necessarily universal and they don't provide that much nourishment spiritually. Such responses are fleeting and come to beginners who are responding for the first time to the beauty of the old Mass--though some people never respond this way at all. For most, the meat and potatoes actually come later, after the nice feelings wear off and attendance becomes a matter of sticking-with something even when emotionally we feel arid and uninspired. That's when we accrue the maximum benefit. In short, the only reason for attending the old Mass should be because it genuinely expresses the fulness of the Catholic faith by offering to God an appropriate adoration. We should leave ourselves out of the issue entirely.

And by the way, the essayist is incorrect when he supposes a communion Host is not validly consecrated if the priest is a practicing homosexual. The priest's personal sinfulness does not invalidate his act of Consecration.

[ArrogantBustard]

He does seem to be flirting with Donatism ... but in his defense there's the possibility that some modernist priests do no have the right intention ... I've met a few in my travels that I had to wonder about.

[TradicalRC]

Thanks for the post and ping. While I do consider myself a Traditionalist, I also recognize the Divine Authority of the Magisterium.

The author's lack of this recognition in addition to his advocacy of the SSPX from that position places him outside of Traditional Catholicism.

The original definition of a heretic was "one who picks and chooses which Scriptures to follow". There is much comfort to be found in the Scripture and the Church, but there is much that SHOULD disturb us. I am not refering here to creeping secularism but to those aspects of the Magisterium and Scripture that calls us to reform. God has asked us to love our enemies. This is something that no man could reasonably ask us to do, but if you are God you ask of us what you will and we ought to recognize the depth of what He is asking. It is indeed a supernatural wisdom that speaks to us.
Pax vobiscum.
-TRC

[AAABEST]

The priest's personal sinfulness does not invalidate his act of Consecration.

Would hatred of God invalidate his act of Conescration? How about those who have joined the preisthood just so they can bugger each other, not have to work or are able ruin everything for the rest of us?

Would you want your child taking communion from such a person? Would Christ want him giving it? I'm asking not arguing as a differ to many in here who are more knowledgable.

Here's what was stated:

If your priest is a one of the enemy’s infiltrators that have penetrated our church or a God hating homosexual who is waking up with his boyfriend Sunday morning before putting his hands on your communion wafer, you are not receiving the body of Christ.

Whether anyone realizes it or not there are many ill-intended agents of the enemy in our church right now, at all levels. They are NOT our friends and they have nothing to do with God, and IMO have no business anywhere near the Body under any circumstances.

[AAABEST]

And hey I can't help it if I'm a sentimental type! Just because I cried when Captain Kirk died does that make me a bad person?

LOL

[Romulus]

Flirting is right. That's why I didn't accuse him outright. Still, I reckon that's where he's headed.

[AAABEST]

I vehemently disagree with your statement that SSPX members are not traditionalists. Why on earth do you think they're there in the first place?

I do agree with you that loving your enemies can be difficult but not always. If you could take the pain of the intitial blow of having to forgive someone who has done something awful or evil, God rewards you for such by giving you strength of character and by knowing that you're pleasing Him. It can be difficult at times but it's so worth it if you ask me.

Also "love" comes in many forms and is not always hard when it comes to enemies. For example, I view Islam as a bitter enemy to our religion and our way of life. To me the most loving thing we could do for them and their children would be to destroy every single mosque on earth including Mecca and Medina, start the next crusade ASAP and get them away from their devil-sent false prophet.

This would be the best thing for them, future generations and the world and I don't feel coming to that decision or ascribing to that belief is difficult or painful in the least.

[AAABEST]

Thank you for that extremely interesting link Romulus, I never even knew what a Dontatist is. Their cause seemed to have been as much politically motivated as it was morally. I can't say how I would have felt had I lived 1,300 years ago, but I certainly don't ascribe to that thinking now.

For the record, I don't think a priest unworthy of Consecration because of their crimes or hatred against other Christians (as these people did), but I do think them unworthy if they hate God and intend to defile and ruin our church. Or if they have joined the priesthood for any other reason but to serve the Lord.

While not all practicing homosexuals priests fall into the category, I still feel they all need to be purged from the priesthood regardless (though not from the body or the church).

Let them sing in the choir or help with bake sales. Leadership positions and dealing with children should be strictly verboten, which is what priest do. BTW, they know for the most part who's "practicing" and who is not. Does anyone think that we should leave homosexual priests in the pulpit?

This is probably wishful thinking as they won't even defrock known child molesters for reasons I fail to understand.

[ArrogantBustard]

As I suggested ... the personal sinfulness of the priest is irrelevant. The possible lack of right intention on the part of the priest is extremely relevant. And I've met a few that I have to wonder if they have the right intention. The "God haters" probably do not have right intention ... and the problem is to discern who they are and avoid them.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Three things are needed for Consecration (assuming a validly ordained priest): right matter, right form and right intent. The first two are easily determined. It is the third which is difficult if not impossible to know.

A practicing homosexual could have 100% belief and intent of consecrating the host into the Body of Christ. As long as he uses proper matter and prayer form it is assumed to be valid. However, if said homosexual is in flagrant violation of basic rubrics and produces sermons/teaching documents (a la Cardinal Mahony) which deny Catholic Eucharistic belief, be afraid.

As for me personally, I take any sign of liturgical funny business as a message to stay away. Intent can be estimated (but not determined!) by observing exteriors: words and behavior. There is a priest in a nearby town who walks around this town with his male companion. Everyone knows he is a practicing homosexual. Ironically, he is a very popular priest. The bishop likely knows about the situation but does nothing. So, does that priest consecrate a valid Eucharist? Perhaps. However, if we are standing at the foot of the Cross during Mass, why would I want to condone or support a priest whose state of mortal sin is an abomination to Our Lord?

IIRC, there used to be a rule where priests in a state of mortal sin incurred another mortal sin if they offered Mass in that state. I think that belief went out after VII.

[AAABEST]

However, if we are standing at the foot of the Cross during Mass, why would I want to condone or support a priest whose state of mortal sin is an abomination to Our Lord?

Interesting point. I am extremely immature on doctrine at times (which is why I defer to others as much as possible) but I do know that if we are in mortal sin, we are commiting sacrilege by receiving communion.

If this is true, I can't imagine it pleasing to God that a phoney who is an unrepentant mocker be giving it.

[ultima ratio]

Sorry--didn't realize you wrote the piece.

[AAABEST]

As I suggested ... the personal sinfulness of the priest is irrelevant.

I agree, we are all sinners and I would hate for myself to be judged on that basis alone.

The possible lack of right intention on the part of the priest is extremely relevant. And I've met a few that I have to wonder if they have the right intention. The "God haters" probably do not have right intention ... and the problem is to discern who they are and avoid them.

Yes it is. As you and Deb rightfully point out, how does one know another's intentions? I would hate to have it on my conscience that a man was wrongfully condemned by a guess.

Which is one reason why practicing homosexuals should as a rule just be kept away from the preisthood altogether, this solves the problem altogether. We don't even have to declare their host invalid like the "Donatists" (hey I learned a new word!) advocated with the traitors, just defrock them or if found out in the seminaries get rid of them at that point.

They are literally killing the body of the church.

[AAABEST]

Sorry--didn't realize you wrote the piece.

PLEASE!!!!!

Don't apologize, your input is very helpful toward self improvement. Does it matter if I wrote it or not?

I need well informed people such as yourself to set me straight. I very much welcome being corrected from those I trust, lest I enjoy sin and error.