Covenant Theology: The Absolute Sovereignty of the Creator

Westminster Presbyterian Church ^ | Dr. James E. Bordwine

[drstevej]

I am familiar with a church in CA that simulcaasts the sermon to ten auditorims each with it's own worship team that offers a different worship mix.

Pretty close already I'd say.

[CCWoody]

***Can't say I've ever heard of "worship lap running."***

It is where you just start running laps around the sancturary while singing whatever. Variations on this theme are doing this with flags and/ or a congo line.

The first Sunday I saw this, I thought to myself "if I could pick up 2 checkered flags from the local NASCAR store then I could announce a winner the next time I saw it." Then, I thought that nobody would appreciate my humor. After all, this is serious HS stuff.

Woody.

[jude24]

I've never used a skit in the church meeting, but I have used them in camp and crusade contexts.

My only attempt at writing a skit since early high school was a very serious affair indeed. It was a portrayal of the trials of Jesus Christ for a children's camp. The kids were profoundly affected as they realized how easily I manipulated them into shouting "Crucify, crucify!" The camp director then used that to explain that our sins crucified Christ just as surely as the chief priests and the Romans.

I'm not fundamentally opposed to skits. But their job is to communicate a spiritual truth, and not to just entertain. Similarly, I don't mind multimedia, as long as it is used to communicate something.

[drstevej]

***or a congo line***

conga ???

[CCWoody]

***You couldn't lure me into one of those any easier than one of the outposts of the Roman empire!***

No guts! No glory!

***I may not be one of the Frozen Chosen but even a Baptist can be pretty Presby on this matter of group hugs.***

Just start tickling their backs and/ or hands. That tends to tone it down some. Or, if you are felling kinda snarky keep your coffee cup full of that expensive coffee service java. Then, when the big hugs start to come, they tend to get wet from the vigorous action. I found out this by accident.

Woody.

[CCWoody]

Hmmm! Yeah, that would be it.

Woody.

[irishtenor]

You bet he is doctrinally sound. I've known him for years. He is part of our Presbytery, and we met for Presbytery in his church the beginning of this month.

[jude24]

Good call -- UB's library has it. I've also got another similar book for that. I may also use Living In the Shadow of the Second Coming: American Premillenialism by Timothy Weber (also in the UB Library).

A lot of my source material will probably be primary sources -- Darby, Chaffer, Scofield, Ryrie, Lindsay, and LaHaye. I'll probably ignore the varients like Bock and Blasing's Progressive Dispensationalism. (For the life of me, I can't see a sharp difference between progressive dispensationalism and new covenant theology, at least.)

I'm thinking this could be a blast, but I'm under no illusions that I'll prove or disprove the system here. I'm not expecting to have the definitive rebuttal or argument for dispensationalism contained within a 10-page term paper. Rather, I hope to understand for myself how this doctrine went from a theological novelty to the establishment as quickly as it did.

[Warlord David]

I find only one flaw. On the 10 commandments Jesus said I come not to destroy the Law and the Prophets, but to fulfill them. Therefore ALL of the covenants in the old testament or fulfilled in the new covenant. The Lord did not pick and choose what he will, but what the Father wills. Also these old covenant are still in effect, but under the new covenant. Example Noah covenant and the rainbow affect, as I call it. Other than that your right on the nail.

[Vernon]

Thanks for the note. The statement Instead, the Bible simply tells us what this God is like, what He has done and is doing; and it tells us what should be our response to Him.

Note the statement about "...'should be' our response..." is a very clear demonstration of the inherent contradiction of Calvinism.

[George W. Bush]

Heh-heh...

Admittedly, I could have more fun if I had an ecumenical bone somewhere in my body.

[drstevej]

You want the placemats, I am holding out for a Clarence Larkin -- Plan of the Ages tie!

[George W. Bush]

I find only one flaw.

I grant you the flaw. But even my weakest point carried some water. God's promise not to flood the Earth again is still in effect.

Still, it was an off-the-cuff observation by me and you are right to point out the weakness.

[drstevej]

I would add Dwight Pentecost's Things To Come to your study. His work was more detailed than Ryrie and fleshed out more of the Dispensational system.

Also instrumental in the promotion of dispensationalism was the small book Jesus is Coming by WE Blackstone (1878) and the Bible Conference movement.

Also the 1917 Balfour declaration and the 1948 reemergence of Israel as a State.

[CCWoody]

***Note the statement about "...'should be' our response..." is a very clear demonstration of the inherent contradiction of Calvinism***

Stop the press. In 2 words, Vern has found the fatal flaw in Calvinism. Let us dash into the streets and disembowel ourselves to save us the agony of admitting that the anthroprocentrics are right.

[George W. Bush]

Good call -- UB's library has it.

Good. Now to the important stuff: any chance you could find me some of those Apocalypse Placemats?

I really want some. They'd be perfect for when I have hunting buddies in or when we're doing the cowboy thing.

Can't find a bigger picture of them online:



Only the 11x14 and 22x28 prints are available, I can't find the placemats.

You can't quite see the plane crashed into the building or the souls flying upward but you can see a little of the general mayhem.

[jude24]

Jesus is Coming by WE Blackstone

UB has this too.

[Biblical Calvinist]

Jude,

For further research for your paper on the history of Dispensationalism, here is an essay written by Earnest Riesinger; a Calvinistic Baptist, on "THE HISTORY OF DISPENSATIONALISM IN AMERICA" =
http://www.preteristarchive.com/dEmEnTiA/reisinger-ernest_dd_01.html

But; if you want the real "Lowdown" on the THEOLOGY as well as the history of "old line Scofieldian" Dispensationalism, Dr. John Gerstner,(who was R.C. Sproul's mentor) has written the most scholarly, definitive analysis of Dispensationalism that I've yet seen in print; the title is "WRONGLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH, a critique of Dispensationalism" . You can find this book here =
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1573580686/qid=1075415749/sr=1-7/ref=sr_1_7/103-5000785-7047818?v=glance&s=books

Keep in mind that this style of "Old Line" Dispensationalism is no longer being taught in any of the major conservative Seminaries; even those seminaries, like Dallas Theological Seminary; which was founded "foursquare" on the Scofield Bible, is no longer teaching "Old Line" Dispensationalism; and has not taught it for some years now.

"Old Line" Dispensationalism is now only being taught through novels; like the "Left Behind" series, or by TV Evangelists; who prey on the uninformed by sensationalist tactics. It's still very popular in the pew though; since most American conservative Christians have been raised with the Scofield Bible. Again, this theology is no longer being taught in the majority of conservative seminaries.

Rather; most conservative Seminaries are largely teaching what is called "Progressive Dispensationalism"; which is close in many ways to classic Covenant Theology. The best book that explains this newer form of Dispensationalism is "PROGRESSIVE DISPENSATIONALISM" by Craig Blaising, and Darrell Bock. You can find it here =
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0801022436/103-5000785-7047818?v=glance

[drstevej]

Now THIS would make one commit Hari Kari! (Harry Caray)...

Wrigley... "Oh, the shame!"

 

 

[jude24]

Something tells me that placemats aren't likely to be in the "documents" section of the libraries.

Maybe Woody can find one.

I'm wondering if Late Great Planet Earth and Left Behind count as primary source materials. They were quite influential.