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Locked on 01/26/2004 9:33:25 AM PST by Sidebar Moderator, reason:
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Posted on 01/22/2004 6:34:29 PM PST by Sidebar Moderator
The bad news is that I am the newly designated moderator of Free Republic's Religion Forum. The good news is that I am the newly designated moderator of Free Republic's Religion Forum.
First, let's discuss why this is bad news.
I have no doubt that everyone who participates in this forum is aware of the general posting guidelines of Free Republic; they've been in effect as long as Free Republic has been in existence. Just for clarity, here they are again: "NO profanity, NO personal attacks, NO racism or violence in posts."
Having spent the better part of a week reading as much as I was able to get to on the Religion Forum, which includes virtually every currently posted thread, I can say that I've seen no profanity (should be a given on a forum devoted to religion), and only one or two posts which could be construed to contain violence. On that score I commend you all.
Unfortunately, however, personal attacks are rampant. Protestants attack Catholics, and vice versa. Within these two major Christian families, Calvinists attack Arminians, and tit-for-tat. Traditional Catholics attack New Age Catholics, and back it comes. Self-professed Christians of all flavors post gratuitous insults and jibes directed toward Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses frequently. Threads are posted for the obvious and sole purpose of flaming "the opposition", whoever that might be in any particular instance. I could go on and on with further examples, but from many of your posted comments it is clear that all of you are aware of these facts, and seemingly, accept them as the order of things.
It is not the order of things, and it will no longer be tolerated.
Sadly, a forum devoted to perhaps the highest endeavor of the human mind and soul, that of the religious expression of faith, has become an embarrassment to Free Republic. All too often the discourse appearing in the Religion Forum resembles that found in those threads devoted to the War on Drugs, less the profanity, of course. Consequently, the question whether the Religion Forum will remain much longer as a feature of Free Republic, at least in its present format, is very much up in the air. How that question is answered depends entirely on the response each and every one of you make to this announcement in the next few weeks.
Therefore, from this time forward, the Free Republic rule of " NO profanity, NO personal attacks, NO racism or violence in posts.", will be more strictly enforced. Furthermore, you are all reminded that this is a religion forum; that is, all practitioners of any recognized religion, provided they also follow the rules, are welcome. However, since a large majority of posters to this forum are self-professing Christians, of one flavor or another, some additional rules will be imposed. You should all be quite familiar with them, even though some of you seem to pay them no heed at present.
These rules are:
"The second is this, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself'." [Mark 12:31 (RSV)]
"But I say to you that hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you." [Luke 6:27 (RSV)]
"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another." [John 13:34 (RSV)]
"If you love me, you will keep my commandments." [John 14:15 (RSV)]
Or, if the commandments of our Lord Jesus are insufficient (paraphrasing Paul) speak the truth in love.
For now, enough of the harsh words. There really is good news.
First and foremost, all that has passed prior to today is forgiven. However, my forgiveness, unlike that of God, is continuing but not unlimited. After all, I'm a sinner, too. Transgressions of the rules will be met with three warnings, followed by three progressively lengthy suspensions, after which unrepentant posters will be, shall we say, cast into the outer darkness. Totally outrageous violations, of course, remain subject to the ultimate penalty immediately, as always.
However, I am also aware that love, in the Biblical sense, is not the Hollywood kind of love we hear about all around us these days. Spirited debate is a hallmark of Free Republic, and is welcome. Sometimes the truth (at least as we understand it, through a glass darkly) sounds rather harsh, but even harsh truth can be couched in terms that allow the Christian love of the speaker to come through.
Further, no matter how you read the tenor of this announcement, I am not a martinet. I can be persuaded to change my mind by reasoned discourse. On the other hand, sinful nature that I have, I do not suffer fools gladly. Directing complaints to me over some action I have taken is fine; doing so with insulting language will not achieve the results you desire, and in fact, will probably result in something far worse. And, as always, I am not the ultimate authority regarding any decision I make; anything I do can be appealed to one higher court - Jim Robinson, by whose direction I am here as moderator.
There are some things I will not do. I will not arbitrate theological disputes. I will not resolve questions of church polity. Nor will I render judgment on interpretations of Scripture. Those are all issues for legitimate debate, and I do not propose to take part as just another poster on this forum. Naturally, I have my own opinions on all these issues, but my opinions are my own and I will keep them to myself.
You should also know, I suppose, that I was selected as the moderator of the Religion Forum because no one else wanted to wade into the mess that this forum has become. All too often when abuse reports come into the moderators from the Religion Forum it is discovered that there are no clean hands in the dispute under complaint. More often than not removing the post complained about generates another abuse report asking "why was I punished when he said thus-and-so first". In many cases, removing all of the offending posts makes the thread unreadable. So, whatever you think of me now, or come to think of me in the next few weeks, I'm your last chance. After me comes the abyss.
And do yourself a favor; before you respond to this announcement remember the immortal advice of Jim Croce:
I'm not Jim, but I've got his ear.
One final word. I am not here 24/7. I actually have a life away from Free Republic; consequently your questions/complaints/comments may not be answered immediately. Be patient, they will be answered eventually. In the end, my goal is (our goal should be) that there will come the day when my presence here is unnoticed. That should be attainable if we all act like the Christian brothers and sisters we claim to be.
May God bless you all.
Big tent theory, eh? Sorry, I don't buy into that BS. Truly, you're not trying to convince me that conservative Jews are ~scared off~ by the vitriol of the Religon forum? You know what I see? I see Jews embracing a certian type of evangelical Christian. I see Jews accepting a form of christianity that furthers their cause. What would it benefit them to antagonize a large financial supporter of theirs? From their point of view I can understand why they choose not to participate
Ah, the Mormons. We should accept the Mormons because of their conservative beliefs. Or should we? Senator Hatch believes in cloning. Is it possible that Senator Hatch's agreement with cloning has to do with a Mormon belief system? I think that is a very strong possibility. When one understands the Mormon belief in heavenly progeny then it is plausible to understand why Senator Hatch would agree in principle with cloning. It seems ones theology does affect ones politic.
I read that whole thing, Major Carleton's report. The link is in post #608. Take a look at the end. By then, he has described Latter-Day Saints in wholly-depraved terms in order to justify his call for their entire extermination, blaming the massacre on nearly all Latter-Day Saints. He thereby destroys his credibility, but still manages to deceive many.
This is poisoned bait. People take the bait, their minds are poisoned and prejudice grows. Demagogues used this kind of material to incite mob violence and lynchings in those days, to get the Governor of Missouri to issue an extermination order in 1938, to get Joseph Smith killed in 1844, to get the Latter-Day Saints driven out of Nauvoo in the winter of 1846 and across the plains, to get the President to send Johnston's army to Utah (which was enroute at the time of the massacre), etc.
People were willing to tell horrible and vicious lies in those days, including many lies of a sexual nature, to stir up hatred and violence. People were willing to put them in print. Congress had 5000 copies of Carleton's report printed in 1902. Now, in the 21st century, people are willing to post this stuff and link to it, calling it part of the "historical record". Others read it and allow themselves to jump to the conclusion that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young bear tons of bad fruit.
Still, it all depends entirely upon the ensuing discussion, as you said. If the posters here all took an academic and dispassionate approach, they would dissect it and analyze it as they had time. But the posters in this forum take a quote out of an article on National Family Day (see #630), or any thread that a Latter-Day Saint posts on, and turn the thread into an anti-LDS bashfest. How much more so with inflammatory and poisonous material such as this!
If you allow this sort of thing with the posters here the way they are -- and there is a great variety of poisonous bait like this at various anti-LDS websites -- it will be posted and reposted every few weeks, ignoring my replies, accompanied by fresh demands that I prove each detail wrong, and that it must be true in every detail if I don't, as though I had the time and resources of a historian dedicated to each of the many subjects brought up.
And of course the endless attempts to pass this persecution off as reasoned discourse, honest examination, and a willingness to examine the warts in the past.
It is precisely because of the very predictable ensuing discussion among the posters we now have and have had, that in allowing such material to be posted, you will see it an instrument of persecution, trying to flood the forum and drown everything positive out, concerning Latter-Day Saints, at the very time you are trying to have a better environment.
The posters here just are not ready for dispassionate discussion of inflammatory material. In theory it should be possible. In practice, flaming, false accusation, persecution, pulled posts, exiled threads, as they try to draw us Latter-Day Saints into their contention or drive us off, try to put us on trial endlessly, try to put us on the defensive endlessly, the 2004 online version of the persecutions of the nineteenth century (and the fifteenth, and so many other centuries), trying to claim some sort of symbolic victory.
I don't have much use for apologetics, especially in this environment. The Scriptures, by contrast, are most edifying.
I probably sound somewhat contentious and accusatory just describing their behavior, but I have experienced all this firsthand for years now. I know whereof I speak.
Why do I stay here? To discuss the Scriptures for the lurkers' sake, and to bear witness of the great things the Lord has done in these latter days.
Sort of agree. i do not accept your contention that early scribal NT translators impuned all Pharisees, it is merely that most of the discourses were with Pharisees, it does tend to show an out of balance perspective if the reader is not aware of the history of the times.
For your own consumption however, i submit this little tidbit to you for consideration.
Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,2) Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3) All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works; for they say, and do not.
Note that it was technically the Saducees who sat in Moses' seat...they controled the priesthood and the government. While the Pharisees are being slapped on the wrist, the REAL insult is to the Saducees. Interesting, no?
I've seen you gleefully post when an anti-calvinist thread is posted. Do Calvinists go on some long diatribe about how the thread should be pulled because it is "poisoned bait"? Your hypocrisy is evident. Grow up and be a man.
Let me use your comment to make a very fine, but important point.
As I see it, we are not moderating the free speech of anyone. Everyone who posts here has the absolute freedom to say whatever he or she wants to say; after all, we can't stop them anyway.
At the same time, Jim Robinson, as the owner of the forum, has the equal right to decide what kind of speech he will allow on his web site - and what speech he doesn't want. I, as one of his moderators, have the obligation to follow his guidelines to the best of my ability.
So, in short, anyone can say what they want to say, and if it violates the posted guidelines, and comes to my attention, I have the obligation to remove it. And I will.
He (she?) wishes. Barbara Feldon was once a pretty hot dame...still is, given her age.
If you should change your attitude sometime in the future, you will be welcomed back with open arms.
May God bless you on your sojourn.
"The second is this, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself'." [Mark 12:31 (RSV)]
"But I say to you that hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you." [Luke 6:27 (RSV)]
"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another." [John 13:34 (RSV)]
"If you love me, you will keep my commandments." [John 14:15 (RSV)]
If these rules give you as much heartburn as it appears they do, I suggest you take it up with the Author.
And by the way, the rule against personal attacks has been in effect since the inception of Free Republic.
Spirited debate and contention between posters has always been - and still is - welcome, provided all are treated with the respect due another creature made in the image of God.
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