[NYer]

[NYer]

But, according to The New York Times Magazine, the actor’s privately funded Church of the Holy Family in Malibu is not affiliated with any diocese. So, according to Church law, it’s schismatic, not a Catholic church at all.

Gibson's church may prove to be far more controversial than his film. An interesting perspective, by a canon lawyer, on the extent of traditionalism.

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[B Knotts]

Since 1993, more than 80 percent of the Catholic bishops in the United States have been directly implicated in court cases of priestly pedophilia or in using their positions to shield such activity over the past 40 years or more, according to a study compiled by reporters Brooks Egerton and Reese Dunklin of the Dallas Morning News last year.

A little background would be helpful here. Some time ago, sinkspur had posted an uncomplemenatary article about Fr. Groeschel, written by this reporter. I did a little googling, and found out that this is no ordinary reporter; he is chairman of the Texas chapter of the National Lesbian and Gay Journalists.

So, when he refers to all of these cases as "pedophilia," (which some of them undoubtedly are) instead of "homosexual," (which most of them undoubtedly are) recognize that he may have an agenda in so doing.

And with a little effort, he says, "you can get a Latin Mass celebrated regularly at your proper parish, and know that you're doing so in full communion with the Church that really is almost 2000 years old."

Ha!

If it were that simple, I don't think we'd have schismatic groups setting up their own chapels.

[ultima ratio]

A better question is whether the Novus Ordo Church is Catholic. Rome has a problem--and it's a huge one. People like Gibson have more real faith and credibility than the legions of corrupt bishops the Pope has himself appointed to be our "spiritual shepherds."

[Mike Darancette]

Then, again, The Catholic Church did not exist at the point in time described by Gibson's movie.

It is as it was.

[Land of the Irish]

Vatican II--officially the Second Vatican Council...mandating simplification of the liturgy and the use of the local vernacular languages instead of Latin everywhere.

For an associate of the Canon Law society, this jerk is clueless.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

This is the next phase of the attack on Mel.

We don't know who the priest is who serves Mel's chapel. He could be SSPX or another priest with valid orders. Just because he isn't affiliated with Mahony doesn't make him schismatic (rather I think it's a badge of honor, but I digress).

There are retired priests and priests without parishes who are allowed to say valid Masses outside of parish buildings. This shouldn't be a judgement of schism.

Mel's chapel is probably one of the most Catholic places in southern California.

[Eala]

The wife and I saw the preview for The Passion yesterday. We are definitely going to see this movie!

[Coleus]

We believe in ONE Holy and Catholic Apostolic Church.

Mel Gibson is NOT Catholic since he built his own church and hired his own priests. The only person who contains the full priesthood of Jesus Christ in a diocese is the Bishop. It is he who gives permission to build churches and blesses the ground on which it's built and then so blesses and dedicates the church, which by civil law he also is named a trustee of the property. Any "priest" in the Catholic Church MUST be under a bishop including those in religious orders, and for a priest to perform sacraments, he needs to be under a bishop and if outside the diocese he needs permission from his bishop and the bishop to where he is going to be stationed.

Mel Gibson is a great guy and shows a good example on how some in the motion picture industry should live, he is pro life, has 6 kids and is not divorced. I just wish he would have gone to his local bishop and worked something out.

[Snuffington]

What About the Latin Mass?, the Latin Mass that traditionalists long for is nothing like 2000 years old--the early Mass was often in Greek, and Gibson probably remembers only the Latin Mass that wasn’t finalized until 1962. “So if he was born in 1956,” Johnson says, “his Latin Mass is really younger than he is himself.”

The intellectual disingenuousness here is staggering.

[welfareworker]

Unfortunately Doc Johnson doesn't have a clue.

You live in a parish, and you go to its church.” Every place in California is already part of a parish, which has its own church.

Canon 1248 allows Catholics to attend wherever the Mass is said in a Catholic rite.

Gibson probably remembers only the Latin Mass that wasn’t finalized until 1962.

The last revision of the Latin missal was published in 1962. Hardly the same as saying the traditional Mass wasn't finalized in 1962.

mandating simplification of the liturgy and the use of the local vernacular languages instead of Latin everywhere.

The Vatican council didn't mandate the vernacular in any way shape or form. I don't know where he got this.

And with a little effort, he says, “you can get a Latin Mass celebrated regularly at your proper parish,

Not likely, many bishops have barred it from their dioceses, and the number of staff who actually know how to say traditional mass is pretty small.

Doc Johnson is clueless, sounds like his PHD was purchased from the back of a matchbook and his associate status with the Canon Law Society is similar to the associate status of the janitors at Walmart.

[nmh]

Does anyone really care?

Also what diffrence does it make? ZILCHO! Either the movie is accurate or it is not. This has nothing to do with his "religion".

[kentuckyusa]

Mel Gisbson, by his own admission, is a Roman Catholic, not a Catholic.

There is a hyge difference in the two, a Roman Catholic is one who abides by the doctrines, teachings and traditions of the church of Rome.

A Catholic is a Born Again Christian, all who make up the body of the church, the bride of Christ.

[Hermann the Cherusker]

“You can’t just build your own church,” Johnson says.

What a stupid comment! Of course you can. You just can't make it into a parish willy nilly. I have a couple of wealthy friends who have just gone and "built their own Church" on their property.

[Dajjal]

ping

[Aquinasfan]

So where does that leave Gibson? “Well, I hope he’s Catholic," Johnson says. "We’d love to have him.”

That about sums it up. Regardless, the movie will stand or fall on its own merits. I'm betting that it will become one of the biggest grossers of all time, but more importantly, it will become one of the greatest evangelical films of this century.

[My back yard]

ping, cause this is the only one I haven't read yet. and I'll read it tomorrow.

[SolaGratia]

Gibson told the New yorker reporter that only those in the Catholic church had salvation.

Sept 15 2003
I told Gibson that I am a Protestant, and asked whether his pre-Vatican II world view disqualified me from eternal salvation. He paused. “There is no salvation for those outside the Church,” he said. “I believe it.” He explained, “Put it this way. My wife is a saint. She's a much better person than I am. Honestly. She's, like, Episcopalian, Church of England. She prays, she believes in God, she knows Jesus, she believes in that stuff. And it's just not fair if she doesn't make it, she's better than I am. But that is a pronouncement from the chair. I go with it.”