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But Is Mel Gibson Catholic?
Pangaeus ^

Posted on 01/11/2004 5:56:57 AM PST by NYer

Everybody likes Mel Gibson. He’s an award-winning actor, he’s box-office gold and he seems like a nice guy. But because of his fame and The Passion, his forthcoming movie about Christ, a lot of his fans would like to be clear on where he stands with respect to the Catholic Church, a Dallas-based author says.


Kevin Orlin Johnson, Ph.D., is an associate of the Canon Law Society of America and a best-selling writer whose book Rosary: Mysteries, Meditations, and the Telling of the Beads includes one of the most graphic accounts of the Crucifixion ever published. He’ll definitely see Gibson’s film about the sufferings of Christ on the Cross. But Gibson’s campaign to build a church in Malibu, California, raises some serious issues about the actor’s relationship with the Catholic Church.


“You can’t just build your own church,” Johnson says. Parishes are geographical entities, set up by bishops in conformance with the Church’s laws and subject to their authority. “There are no free-lance churches in the Catholic Church. You live in a parish, and you go to its church.” Every place in California is already part of a parish, which has its own church.


Gibson’s parish, then, would be the aptly named Our Lady of Malibu on Winter Canyon Road, Johnson says, looking through a Los Angeles Catholic directory. But, according to The New York Times Magazine, the actor’s privately funded Church of the Holy Family in Malibu is not affiliated with any diocese. So, according to Church law, it’s schismatic, not a Catholic church at all.


The Church’s Code of Canon Law defines schism--separation from the Church--as “the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.” Gibson’s father, Houston, Texas resident Hutton Gibson, is an outspoken critic of the Catholic Church and a vocal adherent of the “sedevacantist” movement, so called from the Latin phrase meaning “empty seat”--their claim being that every pope since 1960 has been spurious.


While Gibson himself is said to disagree with his father on many counts, the actor has been quoted often as waxing nostalgic for the Mass said in Latin and the doctrines as they were for almost 2000 years. But, as Johnson explains in his booklet What About the Latin Mass?, the Latin Mass that traditionalists long for is nothing like 2000 years old--the early Mass was often in Greek, and Gibson probably remembers only the Latin Mass that wasn’t finalized until 1962. “So if he was born in 1956,” Johnson says, “his Latin Mass is really younger than he is himself.” That Latin version is still used in the Church by special permission, and it’s actively encouraged by authentic Catholic organizations like the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, headquartered in Elmhurst, Pennsylvania.


The difference is that these groups nurture the Latin Mass in full unity with the Catholic Church. “Fringe groups who reject Vatican II stand away from the Church and go off on their own,” he says. “They’re largely reacting to the sloppy or even destructive way in which Vatican II’s decrees were put into effect here in the United States.”


Vatican II--officially the Second Vatican Council--was convened by Pope John XXIII in 1962 and strove to clarify the Church’s activities to better serve the modern world, mandating simplification of the liturgy and the use of the local vernacular languages instead of Latin everywhere.


“Of course, you have to use the liturgy as a way to look to the substance of the Faith,” Johnson says. “You can’t just stop at appearances.” Vatican II mandated no changes in Church doctrine whatever--“the Church’s teachings are the teachings of Christ,” he says, “and therefore no human agency can add to them or take any away, and the Church never has,” although many Catholics still seem to be confused about that point.


Johnson believes that the confusion started when American bishops took Vatican II as an excuse to sweep away any part of the Church that they didn’t like personally--“not just the Latin of the liturgy but, as we’ve seen, even the most basic doctrines of human decency.” Since 1993, more than 80 percent of the Catholic bishops in the United States have been directly implicated in court cases of priestly pedophilia or in using their positions to shield such activity over the past 40 years or more, according to a study compiled by reporters Brooks Egerton and Reese Dunklin of the Dallas Morning News last year.


That corruption of the clergy makes it hard to find authentic teaching or authentic liturgy in the United States today, Johnson says, but it doesn’t mean that people can just run out and start up their own church instead. The new English Mass is perfectly legitimate and a lot closer to the simplicity of early-Christian practice--when Latin itself was the vernacular, the everyday language of the people. And with a little effort, he says, “you can get a Latin Mass celebrated regularly at your proper parish, and know that you’re doing so in full communion with the Church that really is almost 2000 years old.”


So where does that leave Gibson? “Well, I hope he’s Catholic," Johnson says. "We’d love to have him.” END


TOPICS: Activism; Apologetics; Catholic; Current Events; General Discusssion; Ministry/Outreach; Moral Issues; Prayer; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: canonlaw; catholic; gibson; latin; mass; novusordo; vcii
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1 posted on 01/11/2004 5:56:58 AM PST by NYer
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To: american colleen; sinkspur; Lady In Blue; Salvation; Polycarp; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; ...
But, according to The New York Times Magazine, the actor’s privately funded Church of the Holy Family in Malibu is not affiliated with any diocese. So, according to Church law, it’s schismatic, not a Catholic church at all.

Gibson's church may prove to be far more controversial than his film. An interesting perspective, by a canon lawyer, on the extent of traditionalism.

2 posted on 01/11/2004 6:00:49 AM PST by NYer
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To: All
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Thanks for donating to Free Republic!

Move your locale up the leaderboard!

3 posted on 01/11/2004 6:03:03 AM PST by Support Free Republic (Happy New Year)
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To: NYer
Since 1993, more than 80 percent of the Catholic bishops in the United States have been directly implicated in court cases of priestly pedophilia or in using their positions to shield such activity over the past 40 years or more, according to a study compiled by reporters Brooks Egerton and Reese Dunklin of the Dallas Morning News last year.

A little background would be helpful here. Some time ago, sinkspur had posted an uncomplemenatary article about Fr. Groeschel, written by this reporter. I did a little googling, and found out that this is no ordinary reporter; he is chairman of the Texas chapter of the National Lesbian and Gay Journalists.

So, when he refers to all of these cases as "pedophilia," (which some of them undoubtedly are) instead of "homosexual," (which most of them undoubtedly are) recognize that he may have an agenda in so doing.

And with a little effort, he says, "you can get a Latin Mass celebrated regularly at your proper parish, and know that you're doing so in full communion with the Church that really is almost 2000 years old."

Ha!

If it were that simple, I don't think we'd have schismatic groups setting up their own chapels.

4 posted on 01/11/2004 6:25:18 AM PST by B Knotts (Go 'Nucks!)
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To: sinkspur
I guess I should ping you on this, as I mentioned your name, although it was simply in the context of a historical explanation, rather than an attack on you. :-)
5 posted on 01/11/2004 6:26:52 AM PST by B Knotts (Go 'Nucks!)
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To: NYer
A better question is whether the Novus Ordo Church is Catholic. Rome has a problem--and it's a huge one. People like Gibson have more real faith and credibility than the legions of corrupt bishops the Pope has himself appointed to be our "spiritual shepherds."
6 posted on 01/11/2004 6:58:11 AM PST by ultima ratio
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To: B Knotts
Good ferreting!
7 posted on 01/11/2004 6:58:14 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: NYer
I understood that Gibson was Catholic but was attending an SPPX church.

Is my memory askew here?
8 posted on 01/11/2004 6:59:02 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: NYer
Then, again, The Catholic Church did not exist at the point in time described by Gibson's movie.

It is as it was.
9 posted on 01/11/2004 8:28:22 AM PST by Mike Darancette (Proud member - Neoconservative Power Vortex)
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To: B Knotts
Case in point is the "exile" of Father Weinberger by the bishops of Dallas. Father was doing nothing more than what he is allowed to by right. Saying the mass as prescribed by Rome, that is to say in its offical Latin version. Maybe they didn't like the fact that he wore a biretta?
10 posted on 01/11/2004 8:41:18 AM PST by RobbyS (XPqu)
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To: Mike Darancette
Well, technically the Christian Church did not come into existence until Pentecost.
11 posted on 01/11/2004 8:43:14 AM PST by RobbyS (XPqu)
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To: Salvation
I understood that Gibson was Catholic but was attending an SPPX church.

No, your memory is not askew ;-D

According to Orthodox News (http://www.orthodoxnews.netfirms.com/Mel%20Gibson%20Is.htm)

"Gibson and his son, the star of blockbuster films like "Braveheart" and "Lethal Weapon," are practitioners of an ultraconservative Catholic movement known as traditionalism. The small splinter group seeks to revive orthodox practices that were abandoned several centuries ago by mainstream Catholicism.

The actor has been especially forthcoming about his religious affiliation recently. Gibson is building a traditionalist church on a 9,300-square-foot complex in Malibu, Calif., for about 70 members, the Times said. He is serving as the director, chief executive officer and sole benefactor of the church, which intends to conduct its Sunday Mass entirely in Latin. The property was purchased by a church group called Holy Family."

No need for Roger Cardinal Mahoney to feel threatened ... lol.

12 posted on 01/11/2004 10:12:36 AM PST by NYer
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To: Salvation
I understood that Gibson was Catholic but was attending an SPPX church.

What's wrong with that? Monsignor Perle says it's OK.

13 posted on 01/11/2004 10:28:00 AM PST by Land of the Irish
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To: NYer
No, your memory is not askew ;-D

I'm missing something. Where does your quote mention that Gibson attends SSPX Masses?

14 posted on 01/11/2004 10:30:51 AM PST by Land of the Irish
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To: Salvation; NYer
I thought his Father attended a traditionalist Church, but not SSPX. And I have never heard Mr. Gibson claim he was not in communion with the Roman Catholic Church, or part of another group. We have to watch what the media implies.
15 posted on 01/11/2004 10:41:24 AM PST by nickcarraway (www.terrisfight.org)
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To: NYer
Vatican II--officially the Second Vatican Council...mandating simplification of the liturgy and the use of the local vernacular languages instead of Latin everywhere.

For an associate of the Canon Law society, this jerk is clueless.

16 posted on 01/11/2004 10:42:20 AM PST by Land of the Irish
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To: NYer
But, according to The New York Times Magazine, the actor’s privately funded Church of the Holy Family in Malibu is not affiliated with any diocese. So, according to Church law, it’s schismatic, not a Catholic church at all.

So, according to this offer, all churches run by Jesuits, Benedictines, Franciscans, Carmelites, etc. is schismatic? According to this writer, while I attended Santa clara University and often went to Mass there, I was a schismatic for four years? I never realized or intended to that. Everyone at Notre Dame, Boston College, Georgetown, etc, is a schismatic?

17 posted on 01/11/2004 10:44:51 AM PST by nickcarraway (www.terrisfight.org)
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To: NYer
This is the next phase of the attack on Mel.

We don't know who the priest is who serves Mel's chapel. He could be SSPX or another priest with valid orders. Just because he isn't affiliated with Mahony doesn't make him schismatic (rather I think it's a badge of honor, but I digress).

There are retired priests and priests without parishes who are allowed to say valid Masses outside of parish buildings. This shouldn't be a judgement of schism.

Mel's chapel is probably one of the most Catholic places in southern California.
18 posted on 01/11/2004 10:47:21 AM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: NYer
The wife and I saw the preview for The Passion yesterday. We are definitely going to see this movie!
19 posted on 01/11/2004 10:49:40 AM PST by Eala (Sacrificing tagline fame for... TRAD ANGLICAN RESOURCE PAGE: http://eala.freeservers.com/anglican)
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To: NYer; nickcarraway
Kevin Orlin Johnson, Ph.D....raises some serious issues about the actor's relationship with the Catholic Church.

Looking at the responses, I feel better about not being "enlightened" by this news piece.
Is Mel in schism or not looks to be the unanswered question.
Reflecting back upon Mel Gibson's EWTN interview, there's nothing that stands out as an answer to that.  Wouldn't Arroyo have raised that issue?  I do recall Arroyo's comment "you and I share a love of the Tridentine rite", and Gibson's daily mass attendance being "detergent for the soul".  There was not much beyond that IIRC.
I will *definitely* tune into the next interview on January 23rd.

20 posted on 01/11/2004 10:56:11 AM PST by GirlShortstop
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