[Catholicguy]

I assist at the Mass of all times every Sunday, normally at St. Thomas More in Boynton Beach, FL. Me and The Fam normally hear Eucharistic Prayer Two.

I thought this essay might be helpful to Catholics accosted by the you-know-whos who tell us we are really protestants ect.

[polemikos]

nice summary

[Sneer]

Who are what is considered to be an Integrist? I can't find the word in the dictionary. Thanks.

[Desdemona]

Priest: Blessed are you, Lord, God of all creation. Through your goodness we have this bread to offer, which earth has given and human hands have made. It will become for us the bread of life. All: Blessed be God for ever.

...

Priest: Blessed are you, Lord, God of all creation. Through your goodness we have this wine to offer, fruit of the vine and work of human hands. It will become our spiritual drink. All: Blessed be God for ever.

I don't remember the last time I actually heard this. YOu see it happen with background music, but rare is the occasion any more when the priest waits for the music to be over before doing this.

I like EPI because of the language. It just resonates more, IMO.

[NYer]

Eucharistic Prayer II

Lord, you are holy indeed, the fountain of all holiness. Let your Spirit come upon these gifts to make them holy, so that they may become for us the body and blood of our Lord, Jesus Christ.

> Before he was given up to death, a death he freely accepted, he took bread and gave you thanks, He broke the bread, gave it to his disciples, and said:

Take this, all of you, and eat it; this is my body which will be given up for you.

When the supper was ended, he took the cup. Again he gave you thanks and praise, gave the cup to his disciples, and said:

Take this, all of you, and drink from it; this is the cup of my blood, the blood of the new and everlasting covenant. It will be shed for you and for all so that sins may be forgiven. Do this in memory of me.

Let us proclaim the mystery of faith:

Memorial Acclamation

In memory of his death and resurrection, we offer you, Father, this life-giving bread, this saving cup. We thank you for counting us worthy to stand in your presence and serve you. May all of us who share in the body and blood of Christ be brought together in unity by the Holy Spirit.

Lord, remember your Church throughout the world; make us grow in love, together with John Paul our Pope, {name} our bishop,a nd all the clergy. Remember our brothers and sisters who have gone to their rest in the hope of rising again; bring them and all the departed into the light of your presence. Have mercy on us all; make us worthy to share eternal life with Mary, the virgin Mother of God, with the apostles, and with all the saints who have done your will throughout the ages. May we praise you in union with them, and give you glory through your Son, Jesus Christ.

Through him, with him, in him, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all glory and honor is yours, almighty Father, for ever and ever. Amen.

* * * * *

Thank you for posting this thread. It is also important to understand what renders a mass invalid. From the web site in my tagline ....

3. Levels of Abuse - Invalid and Illicit 

Before getting into the specific abuses, it is important to understand the rules for celebrating the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. These rules are officially called rubrics. These rubrics are contained in the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM)^[1], and many clarifications have been made in other documents such as Instruction Concerning Worship of the Eucharistic Mystery (Inaestimabile Donum).

The most serious type of abuse makes the Mass "invalid." For a Mass to be invalid, the Consecration of the Eucharist does not occur. Going to an invalid Mass is like not attending Mass at all since Jesus is not physically present via the miracle of transubstantiation^[9]. The issue of fulfilling the Sunday obligation under such a circumstance will be dealt with later in this article.

Please read the information posted at this link. There are many abuses that go undetected by most parishioners who simply are not aware of the regulations that govern the mass. Most importantly, KNOW YOUR RIGHTS! According to Inestimable Dominum, "The faithful have a right to a true Liturgy.

IS YOUR MASS VALID?

[Tantumergo]

"In EP2, the ancient liturgical prayer of Epiclesis was restored. It had been part of many liturgies since the First Council of Constantinople in order to emphasize the divinity of the Holy Spirit but dropped out of western usage sometime in the first Christian Millennium."

This eejut has swallowed the liberal propaganda hook, line, and sinker.

The reason why the Roman Canon, and hence Tridentine Mass, does not have an explicit epiclesis is that it is the most ancient rite and was around long before Constantinople I and all the various Eastern rites.

It did not "drop out of usage" - it was never there in the first place. The identity of the Holy Spirit was never a case of theological dispute at the time the Roman Mass was composed.

By returning to a supposedly more ancient rite, the "reformers" have in fact introduced novelties that were never part of the Roman liturgy.

[Maximilian]

I assist at the Mass of all times every Sunday, normally at St. Thomas More in Boynton Beach, FL. Me and The Fam normally hear Eucharistic Prayer Two.

You can't go to "the Mass of all times" and also hear Eucharistic Prayer II. You can only do one or the other. Notice how Sippo starts off by clearly delineating the fact that the New Mass is indeed a new rite. He calls it the "Pauline Rite." The "Pauline Rite" is not the Mass of all times. It is not the same Mass that has been offered in the Roman Church since the time of the apostles.

[Maximilian]

Sippo manages to beat around the bush, throw in a few ad hominem insults and make some irrelevant comments, but the one thing that he does not manage to do is the thing that he said he would do at the outset: demonstrate that Eucharistic Prayer II has any language referring to sacrifice. It does not.

In fact, his first and apparently most significant point is that the Mass really isn't about "sacrifice" anyway. Instead it's a recreation of an Old Testament "Todah." He makes his opponents' point for them. He says that he's going to prove that EPII has language of sacrifice, but then instead he claims that it really doesn't matter whether it does or not because the Mass really isn't a sacrifice.

In the meantime, where does Good Friday fit into all of this? What about the sacrifice on the Cross? Does that have some role in the New Mass? Apparently not, according to Sippo.

Thank you, Mr. Sippo for proving the point better than any "integrist" could ever do. The New Mass is a different Mass from the "Mass of all times." Search the article for the terms "Good Friday" (or just Friday), "Cross," "Passion," "Unbloody." Each one of these terms will return zero hits. The entire concept of what the Mass represents: "an unbloody reenactment of Christ's passion and death on the Cross" no longer exists in the New Mass. Now it is a reenactment of a "Todah." Whatever. Just don't pretend it's the same Mass.