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Catholics Who Don't Think Like Catholics
Karl Keating's e-letter ^ | 12/10/03 | Karl Keating

Posted on 12/10/2003 4:48:49 AM PST by Aquinasfan

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To: Aquinasfan
Aside from the obvious political topics, there are a host of other little things that Catholics don't think like Catholics on, i.e., how to behave during Mass, how to turn off your call phone in a theater thus respecting others and treating them with dignity, yada, yada, yada.

And no, not many people think this way either.
21 posted on 12/10/2003 12:45:14 PM PST by Desdemona (Kempis' Imitation of Christ online! http://www.leaderu.com/cyber/books/imitation/imitation.html)
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To: american colleen
Upon reflection, that would be the majority of daily Mass goers. Codicil - I live in Massachusetts.

We got to get you out of that state.

Seriously why do they bother going to mass at all?

22 posted on 12/10/2003 1:08:30 PM PST by NeoCaveman (who the F is John Kerry?)
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To: Desdemona
Include in that kid's electronic toys, and my favorite pet peeve - noisy gum chewing!
23 posted on 12/10/2003 1:16:54 PM PST by tob2 (Old Fossil and proud of it!)
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To: sandyeggo
Are there really that few of us?

I hope and pray there are not. Personally, many people I know are true to their faith, but they seem to lack the courage to defend it. I suppose they have been taught not to by so many Bishops who won't defend it either.

24 posted on 12/10/2003 1:20:24 PM PST by Gerish
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To: dubyaismypresident
You aren't the first one to say that (got to get you out of that state!) - but you know situations can change for the better or for the worse, depending on the bishop, and here I am with my family and here I will stay.

They go to Mass because they love Jesus and want to be close to Him but unfortunately they have bought the line that conscience (leaving out well formed or malformed) is primary.

"A Generation Betrayed" by Eamonn Keane details a huge part of the problem - as does George Weigel's "The Courage to be Catholic".

Book Description of "A Generation Betrayed"
Confronting error and falsehood in today's Catholic education environment. Modern American Catholic education has been inexorably impacted by Thomas Groome's Shared Christian Praxis and Elizabeth Shussler-Fiorenza's Feminist Theology of Liberation. Their writings and theories have affected many aspects of Catholic education and impeded the proper implementation of the Cathechism of the Catholic Church. Now, in this brilliant analysis, Eamonn Keane exposes the doctrinal error, false logic and bad methodology that characterizes their works. Tracing the theological and philosophical influences of Groome and Shussler-Fiorenza, Keane shows how both were led astray to a basic misunderstanding of Church doctrine. He clearly demonstrates the flaws in Shussler-Fiorenza's methodology and the dubious theological underpinnings of Groome's pedagogical method. He defends the truth and provides a needed antidote to those in danger of intellectual, religious and moral deception. With a special preface by Fabian W. Bruskewitz, Bishop of the diocese of Lincoln, Nebraska, A Generation Betrayed will serve as a clarion call to all American Catholics—and indeed to Catholics throughout the English-speaking world.

Thomas Groome (x-priest) and Elizabeth Shussler-Fiorenza are both Bostonians - Groome teaches at Boston College and Fiorenza teaches at Harvard. Both are frequent and sought after speakers, sadly.

25 posted on 12/10/2003 1:46:05 PM PST by american colleen
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To: Aquinasfan
When the Anglican Church split off from the Catholic Church, the Bishops got together and wrote what are called the Thirty Nine Articles of Faith, that all good Anglicans subscribe to, especialy the priests thereof. Here's article 35:

THE second Book of Homilies, the several titles whereof we have joined under this Article, doth contain a godly and wholesome doctrine and necessary for these times, as doth the former Book of Homilies which were set forth in the time of Edward the Sixth: and therefore we judge them to be read in Churches by the ministers diligently and distinctly, that they may be understanded of the people.

Of the Names of the Homilies.

Of the right Use of the Church.

Against peril of Idolatry.

Of the repairing and keeping clean of Churches.

Of good Works: first of Fasting.

Against Gluttony and Drunkenness.

Against Excess of Apparel.

Of Prayer.

Of the Place and Time of Prayer.

That Common Prayers and Sacraments ought to be ministered in a known tongue.

Of the reverend estimation of God's Word.

Of Alms-doing.

Of the Nativity of Christ.

Of the Passion of Christ.

Of the Resurrection of Christ.

Of the worthy receiving of the Sacrament of the Body and Blood of Christ.

Of the Gifts of the Holy Ghost.

For the Rogation-days.

Of the state of Matrimony.

Of Repentance.

Against Idleness.

Against Rebellion

Now, just because you guys figure Anglicans to be apostate doesn't mean you can't steal a good idea from them. Perhaps the Pope should come up with some standard sermons or Apostolic Letters that clearly set out essential articles of the Catholic Faith and command that they be read from the pulpit (not just printed up and left in the pews, and not edited by the priest reading it) once a year.

If you go to the above link, it in turn has links to the actual text of these sermons.

26 posted on 12/10/2003 2:54:44 PM PST by RonF
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To: conservonator
After 16 years of "Catholic" education I was ill prepared to understand, explain or defend the faith

My Uncle was a LaSalette Priest. My Dad was at LaSalette Seminary for three years. I was brought up in a Catholic Family. I went to Catchism Classes and CCD. I knew very little despite my environment.

It was only after I left the Faith for a decade or more and decided to return that I took an interest in the Faith.

Thanks be to God. He never forgot me even when I abandoned Him.

27 posted on 12/10/2003 3:26:08 PM PST by Catholicguy
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To: american colleen
The only thing of consequence in Massachusettes is what will happen to Nomar? :)
28 posted on 12/10/2003 3:28:17 PM PST by Catholicguy
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To: Catholicguy
My Uncle was a LaSalette Priest. My Dad was at LaSalette Seminary for three years.

Bad (but not surprising, sadly) news about the LaSalette Shrine in Attleboro, Massachusetts. You can now visit there and pick up all kinds of printed information or take classes explaining new age practices... centering prayer, reiki, crystals, etc.

29 posted on 12/10/2003 3:42:25 PM PST by american colleen
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To: RonF
Now, just because you guys figure Anglicans to be apostate doesn't mean you can't steal a good idea from them. Perhaps the Pope should come up with some standard sermons or Apostolic Letters that clearly set out essential articles of the Catholic Faith and command that they be read from the pulpit

Excellent idea. However, we needn't plagiarize from the apostate. There are excellent collections of sermons from St. Alphonsus Ligouri and St. Jean Vianne available from TAN Books and Publishers. If only priests would copy those, instead of supplying their usual drivel, you would see a huge change in their congregations in short order.

30 posted on 12/10/2003 3:43:10 PM PST by Maximilian
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To: Catholicguy
The only thing of consequence in Massachusettes is what will happen to Nomar? :)

What, he's putting an "r" on the end of his name now? You know it's pronounced "Nomah" - what gives?

31 posted on 12/10/2003 3:43:56 PM PST by american colleen
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To: Aquinasfan
**A similar number, 64 percent, say the Church should change "policies to reflect the attitudes and lifestyles of Catholics today."**

Won't happen!
32 posted on 12/10/2003 4:06:36 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation
I am not as optimistc as you. Enough "Progressive" Bishops and priests out there, that they may eventually decide to do their own thing an found an American Catholic Church. It will be Apostate and not of Rome, but the same level of "anything goes" morality would exist.

P.S. Dr. Brian E. Kopp, is that our former Polycarp?
33 posted on 12/10/2003 4:29:53 PM PST by StAthanasiustheGreat (Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit)
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To: NWU Army ROTC
Enough "Progressive" Bishops and priests out there, that they may eventually decide to do their own thing an found an American Catholic Church. It will be Apostate and not of Rome,

and they'll take the Churches with them.

34 posted on 12/10/2003 5:27:24 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Aquinasfan
Do our priests and bishops have the will to instruct and admonish (including the will to instruct and admonish one another)? Frankly, I don't know.

To put it another way" Do our priests have faith? Many of them, no.

35 posted on 12/10/2003 6:06:42 PM PST by RobbyS (XP)
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To: american colleen
Not long ago I read that Tip O'Neil had addressed an audience of priests on the issue or abortion/contraception and during the course of his speech commented that two-thirds of them had took the liberal position on social issues. I think that the politicians began to abandon Catholic teaching only because they followed the priests. It seems that the priests first adopted the social gospel and than allowed it to supercede the Gospel of Christ.
36 posted on 12/10/2003 6:14:25 PM PST by RobbyS (XP)
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To: Catholicguy
The LaSalette fathers served our mission" church in the East Texas oil field.
37 posted on 12/10/2003 6:17:36 PM PST by RobbyS (XP)
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To: RobbyS
You maybe can trace it back to Richard Cardinal Cushing of Boston winking and blessing John F. Kennedy and the rest of the Kennedy family, no matter what they did or what they said.
38 posted on 12/10/2003 6:20:45 PM PST by american colleen
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
and they'll take the Churches with them.

Just the buildings.

39 posted on 12/10/2003 6:27:29 PM PST by NeoCaveman (who the F is John Kerry?)
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To: dubyaismypresident
Where will the faithful go? SSPX can only accomodate so many, if they become the default alternative for mainstream Catholics. I strongly doubt Rome will send new bishops and boatloads of money for new Churches all across America. If Boston is any indication of things to come, individual parishes with liberal pastors and parishoners could easily break away. The orthodox will be left spiritually homeless.
40 posted on 12/10/2003 6:35:05 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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