"Luther and his followers could not bring themselves to draw the extreme conclusions that logically flowed from their false teaching on man's salvation. Calvin and Zwingli and their reformer-followers proved to be more consistent.
If good works have no significance whatsoever in the matter of salvation, if man through sin has lost every capacity for good, and if even faith - the sole condition for salvation - is God's gift, the question naturally arises: why then are not all men saved, why do some receive grace, while others believe and perish?
There can be only one answer to this question, and the reformers give it: "From eternity, God predestined some for salvation, others for perdition, and this predestination depends not at all on a man's personal freedom and life."
The erroneousness of the reformers'teaching is obvious. It perverts the truly Christian understanding of God's justice and mercy, of man's worth and purpose as a free and rational being. God appears here not as a loving, merciful Father, "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (I Timothy 2:4), but as a cruel, unjust despot, who saves some without any merit and dooms others without fault to perdition.
The Orthodox Church also recognizes predestination, but does not consider it unconditional, that is, independent of men's free well and based on a groundless decision of the divine will. According to Orthodox teaching, God, as omniscient, knows, foresees the moral state of men and, on the basis of this foresight, preordains, predetermines for them a certain fate."
Putting on the flameproof suit in advance....
I'd have gotten away with it if it werent for those meddling kids
[2] You can tell whether your kids are elect or not the same way you can with anyone else. Since you can not see a new heart, you listen to their profession and look for the results of a new heart. Mine are 17 and 21 and I am confident they are elect.
I'm confident mine are as well......but what I continually return to (in my head) is the aborted unelect baby - help me (and the unwashed)understand just when a saving election occurs. From what Ive been told by some of my FR swarm friends is that I can be elect despite myself and my arminianism. Supposing that is accurate - I get the notion that there is a pre-disposition of my soul - which brings me back to the aborted unelect baby scenario - and I think this is where my brothers and sisters get hung up as well - so all huffing and puffing things calvin aside for the moment - spend a some time on an informative post and give me and the lurkers an education in election in contrast to
John 6:35 Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
- It sounds arnminian until verse 39, where I get the impression God has determined election - am I reading it right? - and from this - I'm led to think the truth lies somewhere in between
[3] Servetus burgers, believe it or not, are often served with [as] red herrings.
touche'....sometimes with a side of Arminian "bashed" potatos
[4] I am bummed at the FAIR mods. My FR namesake (WM Jr) claimed that he was God's gift to me. I replied, "I asked for hemorrhoids. God works in mysterious ways." The mods applied preparation H to my post.
I missed that gem
[5] Who says Arminians and Calvinist-Lites can't get along? We show they can. Blessings to you...
agreed - as well to you my friend