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To: Jean Chauvin
There is a huge difference!

Jesus said "Take, eat; this is my body..."

"I am the door." (John 10:9)

Does He say "This door is me?" or "This vine is me?" No, He does not! There is a clear difference between when a metaphor is being used and when something else is intended.

We believe that Jesus spoke the truth, even if it confuses those skilled in the rhetorical techniques of the modern day. Clearly, He is imparting something beyond our understanding to this bread and that it is important for us to consume it. That is why the Eucharist was a key component in the worship of early Christians and that is why it remains so to this day.

346 posted on 12/04/2003 10:24:21 AM PST by FormerLib
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To: FormerLib
"Does He say "This door is me?" or "This vine is me?" No, He does not! There is a clear difference between when a metaphor is being used and when something else is intended.

Does he say, "This bread is me"? or "This wine is me?" No, He does not! He actually says, "this is my body" and "this is my blood".

The Roman Catholic error in their understanding is nearly identical to the error of the Apostles in John 6:34

John 6
34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

The Disciples thought Jesus was talking about physical/material bread in vs. 31-33.

Jesus corrected them in vs. 35:

John 6
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Jesus no more meant an end to physical/bodily hunger than he meant that he was physical/bodily bread.

We believe that Jesus spoke the truth,..."

John 1 (NIV)
7 Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep.

John 10 (NASB)
7 So Jesus said to them again, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am (1) the door of the sheep.

John 10 (ESV)
7 So Jesus again said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.

John 10 (NKJV)
7 Then Jesus said to them again, "Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.

Care to try another reason?

"That is why the Eucharist was a key component in the worship of early Christians and that is why it remains so to this day."

The importance of the Lord's Supper is not tied with any belief that the bread and wine physically transforms into Jesus real/physical body. The churches of the Reformation strenuously objected to the Roman Catholic doctrine of Transubstantiation, yet the Lord's Supper remains a key component in faithful Reformation churches to this day.

Jean

349 posted on 12/04/2003 11:21:04 AM PST by Jean Chauvin (Sola Scriptura---Sola Fida---Sola Gracia---Sola Christus---Soli Deo Gloria)
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To: FormerLib; conservonator; Jean Chauvin
Clearly, He is imparting something beyond our understanding to this bread and that it is important for us to consume it. That is why the Eucharist was a key component in the worship of early Christians and that is why it remains so to this day.

Please explain why you believe a human body was included, but not mentioned, on the sheet shown to Peter in Acts 11. We can begin talking about the validity of transubstantiation once you offer your reading of that chapter. Until then, bon appetit!

369 posted on 12/04/2003 4:11:06 PM PST by Alex Murphy (Athanasius contra mundum!)
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