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To: FormerLib
"Does He say "This door is me?" or "This vine is me?" No, He does not! There is a clear difference between when a metaphor is being used and when something else is intended.

Does he say, "This bread is me"? or "This wine is me?" No, He does not! He actually says, "this is my body" and "this is my blood".

The Roman Catholic error in their understanding is nearly identical to the error of the Apostles in John 6:34

John 6
34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

The Disciples thought Jesus was talking about physical/material bread in vs. 31-33.

Jesus corrected them in vs. 35:

John 6
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Jesus no more meant an end to physical/bodily hunger than he meant that he was physical/bodily bread.

We believe that Jesus spoke the truth,..."

John 1 (NIV)
7 Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep.

John 10 (NASB)
7 So Jesus said to them again, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am (1) the door of the sheep.

John 10 (ESV)
7 So Jesus again said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.

John 10 (NKJV)
7 Then Jesus said to them again, "Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.

Care to try another reason?

"That is why the Eucharist was a key component in the worship of early Christians and that is why it remains so to this day."

The importance of the Lord's Supper is not tied with any belief that the bread and wine physically transforms into Jesus real/physical body. The churches of the Reformation strenuously objected to the Roman Catholic doctrine of Transubstantiation, yet the Lord's Supper remains a key component in faithful Reformation churches to this day.

Jean

349 posted on 12/04/2003 11:21:04 AM PST by Jean Chauvin (Sola Scriptura---Sola Fida---Sola Gracia---Sola Christus---Soli Deo Gloria)
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To: Jean Chauvin
The importance of the Lord's Supper is not tied with any belief that the bread and wine physically transforms into Jesus real/physical body.

As you may have noted, the Orthodox Church does not believe in a physical transformation but in a real and mystical presence in the Eucharist.

The churches of the Reformation strenuously objected to the Roman Catholic doctrine of Transubstantiation...

Often referred to as throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

...yet the Lord's Supper remains a key component in faithful Reformation churches to this day.

"The Lord's Supper!" Yes, absent the real presence in the Eucharist, it is just like any other commemorative meal, isn't it?

352 posted on 12/04/2003 11:48:27 AM PST by FormerLib
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To: Jean Chauvin
Care to try another reason?

None needed as I still believe He spoke the truth in the first example. Sorry that your search for metaphor has made the obvious truth so difficult to perceive.

353 posted on 12/04/2003 11:59:58 AM PST by FormerLib
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