I am always amazed at Roman Catholic attempts to reduce John 6 to a literalistic wooden statement."Also, how many followers left because they couldn’t reconcile the fact that Christ used the imagery of a door or a vine? They understood the use of imagery, which is why they were scandalized by Christ’s statements in John: 6"Thankfully Paul and the other apostles didn't share your view.
1 Cor 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
What do you think Paul is talking about in 1 Cor 12:27 and Eph 4:12? If the "body of Christ" is always supposed to mean the material/physical body that Jesus has, we are guilty of being Pantheists.
Your application here is a logical fallacy. Just because some may truly understand the parabolic imagery does not negate the fact that some (the Roman Catholic Church?) will fail to understand it.
Perhaps that is because God intended for them to misunderstand:
Mark 4
10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.
11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
Jean
So it is your contention that Jesus was speaking to the unconverted at that point? It is the only way your argument makes any sense.
Explain how this is true. I believe you've misused the term.
You could, but you’d be wrong.
I am always amazed at Roman Catholic attempts to reduce John 6 to a literalistic wooden statement.
Wooden? How so? You think our Lord’s words are “wooden” In what world are the words “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.” “wooden”
Thankfully Paul and the other apostles didn't share your view.
1 Cor 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
What do you think Paul is talking about in 1 Cor 12:27 and Eph 4:12? If the "body of Christ" is always supposed to mean the material/physical body that Jesus has, we are guilty of being Pantheists.
Are you attempting to persuade me into believing that you can’t discern the difference between references to the Church and references to the Eucharist?
"Also, how many followers left because they couldn’t reconcile the fact that Christ used the imagery of a door or a vine? They understood the use of imagery, which is why they were scandalized by Christ’s statements in John: 6"
Your application here is a logical fallacy. Just because some may truly understand the parabolic imagery does not negate the fact that some (the Roman Catholic Church?) will fail to understand it.
Logical fallacy? Is your use of this phrase a Straw Man? Are you so enslaved to logic that the meaning of John 6:61-63 “61 But Jesus, conscious that His disciples grumbled at this, said to them, "Does this cause you to stumble? 62 "What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before? 63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. “ slips by you?
Do you really think that John 6, when viewed in concert with Matt. 26:26; Mark. 14:22; and Luke 22:19-20 can be construed as a parable or as an analogy? It can not and for 1500 years, it was not. The disciples did not leave because Christ was teaching a parable about eating His flesh, they left because they knew He meant it.
Remember that " With many such parables he spoke the word to them as they were able to understand it. Without parables he did not speak to them, but to his own disciples he explained everything in private." (Mark 4:33-34) They understood, they just lacked faith.
Perhaps that is because God intended for them to misunderstand:
Mark 4 10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable. 11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: 12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
This passage is referring to the use of parables and the non-believer. As I stated, John 6 is not a parable.
So how do you reconcile 1 Cor 11:23-27 Particularly since Paul is obviously not making a symbolic reference?