2 Border Vigilantes go to jail in capture

Arizona Republic ^ | 8 October 2003 | Daniel Gonzalez

[Carry_Okie]

Juries have a great deal of power. The judges prevent them from finding that out and routinely lie to juries while giving them instructions.

You may want to find out more about the Fully Informed Jury Association. Here's a little history on the topic.

[MissAmericanPie]

Cry me a river. This is a whole nother animal and you know it. There are laws against illegal entry into the USofA being dismissed by every facet of law enforcement from the President on down. So it's ok to ignore one set of laws and not another?

Citizens are the only ones expected to obey laws designed to keep them from protecting their nation from invasion while government flaunts the law?

I think you forget who is suppose to be working for who in this country.

[Senator Pardek]

You're alive!

[c-b 1]

I am surprised that the defendants did not select a jury trial.

The defendants were overwhelmed with charges, most were dropped when they plead out.

It's really too bad our citizens are not informed of their powers on a jury to throw out the law.

Yes it is.

[c-b 1]

Where was the border patrol? Handing out coffee, donuts and a map of the USA?

Please do NOT blame the Border Patrol agents on the ground, there are far too few of them, they are not the problem, the problem is in Washington D.C. The guys out there on the ground do a good job with what they have to work with.

[Marie]

I?m going to be honest, I have nothing personal against the illegals. However, I understand the frustration of these guys in Yuma. I live in Cochise and once the monsoons set in, the traffic starts to flow. I have 4 acres in the middle of a valley about 15 miles (as the crow flies) from the border. We?ve had property stolen and I?ve cleaned up campground messes right in my own back yard. I?ve caught Mexicans trying to break into our shed. If you sit quietly in the back yard late at night and just listen you can actually hear a dozen people running through the weeds. I?m sure that most of these people are decent folks running to a better life. I?m also certain that many of these people are dangerous. We can?t tell the difference and we feel threatened by the whole mess.

The only solution is a 2,000 mile electric fence along the southern border and armed patrols.

[Cultural Jihad]

As I said, you are free to grab your gun and rush south. You are free to accost unarmed women and children walking down a public street. You are free to assault them with your gun. You are NOT free to avoid the consequences of your actions, though.

[Cultural Jihad]

The only solution is a 2,000 mile electric fence along the southern border and armed patrols.

Not really. A better immigration policy is all that's needed. Make it easier for legal immigrants to come live and seek work here.

[FreePaul]

Wouldn't suprise me if the govt came down harder on the good guys than the illegal drug smuggling criminals.

Nothing embarrasses a police state more than having civilians show some success where the police fail. You can be sure that they will come down hard on anyone who may show that the police are not doing their job.

[norton]

I think it's a safe bet that the coyote had made it across the border more than one time....
I'd also think that conspiracy would get in there as a logical consideration...a dozen people do not just meet on the south side of the river and decide to go hiking together on a whim.

And, to #25: I've seen at least one pretty violent bust for parking in a handicapped space - you'd be surprised at how irate someone permanently on crutches can get.

[dirtboy]

The conducted a citizens arrest upon witnessing a felony crime.

It wasn't a probable felony.

[dirtboy]

Only the first time and you know it. Second time - and all further entries that someone is arrested and convicted for - are felonies.

Someone witnessing an illegal border crossing has no way of knowing whether someone has previously crossed, so it doesn't rise to the threshhold of probable felony.

Don't get me wrong, I think the laws should be changed to allow armed citizen apprehension of illegals where they are witnessed crossing the border or there is a high level of certainty that they are illegals. But under current Arizona state law, being a probable illegal does not rise to the citizens arrest threshhold. ABP recognizes this, and does not attempt to apprehend illegals unless they witness some other offense, such as breaking into a home or burglarizing of an outbuilding.

[dirtboy]

He needs to bring charges against the judge for unlawful detainment and sentencing, take it to the Supreme Court then on to the SCOUS. Someone needs to kick this case up a knotch.

You can't bring charges against a judge for upholding the law as written. Work to change the law instead.

[MissAmericanPie]

Oh look, your keyboard just threw up on your shoes.

[JustPiper]

the past year his group has turned over more than 2,000 undocumented immigrants to the Border Patrol.

Now, these guys are Patriots!!!

[JustPiper]

Bump!

[AdamSelene235]

"If you commit a misdemeanor, then I shall commit a felony upon you."

I'm curious. If the letter of the law stated illegal immigration was a felony would you then support citizen's arrests or have you embraced the libertarian's immigration views?

[Travis Bickel/Marine Inspector]

If the letter of the law stated illegal immigration was a felony would you then support citizen's arrests

Even if the law stated that illegal immigration was a felony, you could still run into problems.

First, you would have to witness the crossing (i.e. actually see them cross the border).

Second, you would have to determine their citizenship and immigration status. They could be US citizens, resident aliens or illegals. And remember, US citizens and resident aliens are not required by law to prove anything to Joe citizen as to their citizenship or immigration status.

Third, the law states that you have 24 hours to report your crossing to immigration authorities.

Conclusion, if you don't know the law, don't try to enforce the law.

The reason Simcox and the other groups don’t get into trouble, is that they don’t make arrest or detain the suspected illegals. They just follow the group and report the location to the Border Patrol.

[AdamSelene235]

That doens't answer my question.

[Travis Bickel/Marine Inspector]

That doens't answer my question.

I can't answer for Cultural Jihad.

I was just pointing out that complexity of the law and the situation.

Even if illegal immigration was a felony, civilians would still end up being charged and convicted of a crime for attempting a citizens arrest, because of the complexities of the law that they know nothing about.