Slaying theories involve devil, Nazis, art

The Mercury News ^ | Oct 6, 2003 | Julia Prodis Sulek

[Devil_Anse]

Good night! The important thing is that none of us have THAT dream, the one Scott has, where the police say, "Go home, Scott, it was all a mistake."

Scott... Jewell. No. NO!!! AAAAHHHHH!!!

[Sandylapper]

Isn't Maderas a famous golf course in San Diego?

Who knew? (Besides you). Go to bed, girl.

[Sandylapper]

Well, "artist" encompasses a lot of territory these days. (grin)

[Devil_Anse]

Er, yes. Star/Randi is probably one, too.

[Devil_Anse]

Yeah, that's too much information! About the golf course with the same name as the criminal! Now I'm wondering if Scott ever played golf there...

[Sandylapper]

You mean "an artist"? No doubt about it!!!!!

[Sandylapper]

Way too much info! Gosh, and I sent Vel to bed! How will we ever make the connection?

[Sandylapper]

Anse, I think we're left alone to continue this thread, and I want you to look at the paragraph below (copied from the article at the beginning of the thread):

One scenario could send Peterson to the death chamber. The other could set him free. Could either be true? Or has a thirst for the sensational spawned titillating tales when the reality may be something far simpler: a cheating husband killing his wife to be with his mistress?

The far simpler theory won't fly in light of Cory, IMO. We don't know exactly when Cory and Scott met, but it was in November. Scott met Amber on November 20. If Cory and Scott met before November 20th, Scott didn't have a mistress, Amber. If after November 20th, only slightly, so that won't fly with a jury either, I don't think.

Of course, I believe Cory and Scott did meet; you may not think so.

[Rusty Roberts]

Where is the article about the jail NOT being in lockdown when Carroll was there, I know we had one here? That alone should blow his story out of the water, as this case was everywhere.

That, and the way Muna kept changing the details those first few days was faster than the River Dancers.

I just have the strong feeling that MDalton is "officially" not with the firm, but unofficially is another story. This way, if it works, great, if it doesn't and blows up in their face, he's the well paid (under the table) sacrificial lamb.

[Rusty Roberts]

Let me add, I think anything is possible, in that these "players" are not what they appear to be, any of them.

The layers of Scott have begun to be pulled off, but only just begun. I think the same is going to be done to several other participants in this case, be they witnesses, victims, investigators or lawlyers etc. It is a slippery slope...

[Devil_Anse]

Sandy, I thought the Cory story got a bit of life breathed into it when no less a personage than Geraldo (!) said they've now found out the real name of one of Cory's thugs (Doug Maderas, or whatever his name is.)

But Rusty Roberts has reminded us of the lockdown lie that Cory told. I believe it was a lie. It never sounded right to begin with. IMO, it is highly unlikely that any prison or jail would keep ALL its prisoners in lockdown for the length of time Carroll said they all were in it. Jails and prisons will never stop giving inmates privileges, b/c that is just about the only way their personnel can get any cooperation whatsoever from the inmates. Such a prolonged--and indiscriminatory--lockdown (loss of all privileges) would have been a disaster, as it would have made the inmates more desperate by the day. I can't imagine it happening.

That poster Valpall was making sense in what he said, too: cons like Carroll will lie, and lie convincingly. Muna probably feels that he is protected from the consequences of Carroll's lies, since he can just say that he truly believed them, as much of the public did.

In the end, we might find that Scott did indeed play a game of pool with some Carroll; we might find that he even mentioned insurance fraud regarding the van. But I have a feeling that would probably be all.

I kind of want to believe the Carroll story, only b/c it holds a promise of our hearing what REALLY happened from someone--since it is clear that Scott isn't going to tell. But I really think we are being hoodwinked.

[MaggieMay]

This is from Sunday's Fresno Bee,Oct 12. Tiled,"Frey calls revealed in phone records". There is a timeline at the bottom of the article,I did not repost here.
link
http://www.fresnobee.com/local/story/7582388p-8491240c.html

As observers around the world earlier this year waited for word on the missing Laci Peterson, secret, emotional bonds apparently developed between her loved ones and her husband's lover.
Amber Frey, who emerged Jan. 24 with a bombshell revelation of her romance with Scott Peterson, the next day began calling friends and family of Laci Peterson, according to partial telephone records.

By March 14, Frey had reached out 53 times to people close to Laci Peterson, totaling nearly 61/2 hours of telephone time.

Well-placed sources say Frey hoped to assure Laci's loved ones that she did not know that Scott Peterson was married when they began dating Nov. 20.

Frey also shared with them her hope, sources say, that the missing pregnant woman and her baby would be found safe.

The bodies of mother and son were recovered in mid-April along the shore of San Francisco Bay.

Peterson, 30, has pleaded not guilty to double-murder charges. Prosecutors are seeking the death penalty.

Peterson talked with Frey in February about his taking a lie-detector test, according to two sources. The phone records show that Frey called a respected polygrapher in Fresno, but the test never occurred, sources said.

Frey, a 28-year-old Fresno massage therapist, continued talking with Peterson for almost four weeks after she publicly acknowledged their romance, phone records reveal.

She appeared at the same time to have a direct line to authorities, who were secretly wiretapping Peterson's phones. Frey reported to her police handler immediately following many of her conversations with Peterson, records show.

"I hand it to Amber for doing the right thing," said Ron Grantski, Laci Peterson's stepfather.

Most of the people connected to Laci Peterson who were called by Frey declined to comment for this story. Grantski said they do not want to violate a court-imposed gag order preventing potential witnesses from discussing the case.

Frey did not return calls seeking comment.

Grantski indicated that some of the conversations with Frey included details of the investigation.

"A lot of it does pertain to the case," Grantski said. "It'll all come out in court; at least I hope it will." Grantski declined to comment further.

More than half of Frey's phone time with Laci Peterson's family and associates was spent with Lori Ellsworth, a close friend of the then-missing woman. Ellsworth spoke with Frey at least 20 times totaling nearly 31/2 hours, phone records show.

Ellsworth declined to comment.

Frey dialed three phones used by Laci Peterson's brother, Brent Rocha, nine times over the six-week period. She called Laci's sister, Amy Rocha, twice in February.

Frey called the home number of Grantski and Laci's mother, Sharon Rocha, twice, and dialed Rocha's cell phone twice, once talking for 22 minutes.

That conversation occurred Feb. 4, the day the court order for the first wiretap on Peterson's phones ended.

Phone records show that Frey additionally called Rene Tomlinson, another friend from Laci's youth. And she called the Sund-Carrington Memorial Reward Foundation and the cell phone of its executive director, Kim Petersen.

Kim Petersen has served as a spokeswoman for Laci Peterson's family. She said authorities notified her that she, too, may be called to testify at court proceedings.

Jeanette Sereno, an attorney and criminal justice professor at California State University, Stanislaus, said Frey may have connected with Laci Peterson's loved ones because all perceived themselves as having a common enemy: Scott Peterson.

Sereno said it is not surprising that some of the conversations, according to phone records, were lengthy. For example, Frey and Ellsworth appear to have spoken for 90 minutes on Jan. 28, the day that Peterson, in a nationally televised interview, admitted his affair with Frey.

"They're talking about emotional things," Sereno said. "Both sides have a lot to say. It's not a business call."

Ruth Jones, a criminal law professor at McGeorge School of Law in Sacramento and a former prosecutor, said that without knowing what was said, the calls between the family of a missing woman and the "other woman" appear odd.

"Maybe I'm cut from a harder cloth," Jones said. "My friend, daughter or sister is missing, maybe dead, and you're the [woman] her husband is sleeping with; I don't want to chat on the phone with you."

More important in a legal sense is how an important witness's credibility might be affected if she shared sensitive information with the victim's family, Jones and Sereno agreed.

Sereno said defense lawyers might be expected to question whether any bias by Laci Peterson's family could have worn off on Frey, perhaps unintentionally. Prosecutors, on the other hand, will want Frey "to look like a victim, not a temptress," Sereno said.

During the same period that Frey called Laci Peterson's loved ones, she also was busy on the phone with her former boyfriend. Records show that she exchanged at least 76 calls with Scott Peterson over nine turbulent weeks that started nine days before Laci Peterson's disappearance.

The calls between Frey and Scott Peterson stretched through the holidays, her birthday and the due date for Peterson's son before apparently ending Feb. 19 -- 15 days after investigators stopped bugging his phones.

Frey first called Modesto police at 1:43 a.m. Dec. 30. She would call authorities more than 200 times in the next six weeks, totaling more than 20 hours of conversation.

Prosecutors might have hoped to induce Peterson into making damaging statements that the wiretaps would pick up, Assistant San Francisco District Attorney James Hammer has said.

On Feb. 1, Frey called Ellsworth and Scott Peterson nine times for a total of 91 minutes, and dialed her police handler, detective Jon Buehler, 19 times on calls that lasted a total of 61 minutes.

That was the day that Frey explored arranging a lie-detector test for Peterson, according to sources. They said Peterson apparently offered to submit to a polygraph, but that the plan never materialized.

Phone records from that same day show that Frey twice called Melvin King, a former Fresno police lieutenant who operates a polygraph and private investigation service. King has refused to discuss the calls.

The reporters can be reached at gstapley@modbee.com jcote@modbee.com or (209) 578-2300.

[Devil_Anse]

Thank you, Maggie!

It sounds like Amber was perhaps getting background information from this Lori Ellsworth, who had obviously known Scott longer. Or perhaps telling Ellsworth some of what Scott said, in order to check to see if he was telling the truth about certain things, things like, maybe, where he was on particular days before Laci's death, etc. Ellsworth might have remembered, perhaps, certain evenings when she knew Scott and Laci were together at home, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised to find this Ellsworth testifying at the trial, and testifying that she sort of worked in concert with Amber, all under the direction of the police.

[MaggieMay]

This is a quote from two law professors commenting from the above article."More important in a legal sense is how an important witness's credibility might be affected if she shared sensitive information with the victim's family, Jones and Sereno agreed."

Devil Anse,in a past conversations you and I had talked about when Amber began cooperation with LE,she began acting as "an agent of the state".Given this,do you think these conversations will indeed receive intense scrutiny? And if so,what might the outcome be?

[Sandylapper]

Thanks a bunch, Mags! Very informative! So the turbelent phone calls between Amber and Scott began "DAYS" before Laci disappeared?

In light of this timeline and phone calls, does anyone (besides me) wonder exactly when she mailed Scott the book with the note that informed him that her phones were tapped?

[Sandylapper]

There is no question in my mind's eye that cons will lie, and I have no problem believing that Cory lied about the lockdown. I believe that when Amber moved for protection, we got a huge hint that others may have indeed been involved in the kidnap/murder of Laci, and probably upon learning about Amber's fear and protection, Cory thought it was time to play CYA. IOW, I think Cory learned something about "who knew what" about his meeting with Scott.

While it's probably true that Cory lied about the lockdown, was he questioned on the LD test about it?

[Canadian Outrage]

Maybe it's just a coincidence. Snott was probably already trying to come up with a theory that she was kidnapped. I'm not so sure these criminals are "really" part of the plan.

[Devil_Anse]

I don't know, Maggie. I imagine that if one of the people--say this Lori--whom Amber talked to a lot, testifies, she should expect to be dragged over the coals about "well, YOU'RE in tight with Amber Frey, aren't you, and we all know how SHE feels about the defendant, who lied to her..."

That same Lori, if she had anything which might be fit to present as evidence (testimony), would have been thoroughly questioned by the police anyway. She would also have been prepared for her testimony by the lawyers for the DA's office. So, I mean, if the defense wants to try to discredit a witness just b/c that person might have been told sensitive inside info by Amber, I don't see how they can. B/C chances are, many of the state's witnesses would have had inside conversations with far more direct state "agents" than Amber--DA's and police detectives. And I think that would be obvious to the jury anyway.

[Devil_Anse]

I don't think they said Cory was asked any questions about the lockdown on the lie detector test. But, just my opinion, it's quite possible that Cory could beat a lie detector anyway. Furthermore, IMO, he was in a much more sympathetic and relaxing position when being tested than is someone who is clearly being suspected by police of a crime, and who is sitting in the hot seat in the police station. Here, Cory was just the "good guy volunteer."

[Devil_Anse]

It's hard to decide what to think about this, isn't it? Don't forget, also, that by the time Scott made that statement about "I wouldn't wanna live in a house my wife was kidnapped from", he would have already known about the almost simultaneous burglary across the street. Maybe he was thinking of trying to blame the burglars for being Laci's "kidnappers".