Davis, Schwarzenegger will miss final debate

San Diego Union-Tribune ^ | October 4, 2003 | Bill Ainsworth

[Roscoe]

SACRAMENTO – The last debate before Tuesday's unprecedented California recall election will take place this evening at 5 p.m. at the KPBS studios on the San Diego State University campus.

The debate, sponsored by the League of Women Voters of San Diego County, KPBS and The San Diego Union-Tribune, features three of the four major replacement candidates – Democratic Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante, Republican state Sen. Tom McClintock of Thousand Oaks and Green Party candidate Peter Camejo. Gov. Gray Davis' wife, Sharon Davis, is scheduled to represent the governor.

Republican Arnold Schwarzenegger, who has emerged as the front-runner to replace Davis – should he be recalled – has declined to participate.

[Roscoe]

Tom should leave the party, IMHO.

He survived Wilson and the threats of the Arnold groupies are just so much empty noise.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Whats CA's main problem right now?

Illegal aliens draining our finances and stretching our infrastructure to the breaking point. Arnold says they should stay.

[Tamzee]

And how Arnold's groupies did howl when Tom did the same.

I wish you hadn't gone overboard again because I try not to criticize McClintock. The reason folks HOWLED was not that McClintock wanted secret questions... folks howled because McClintock teamed up with Cruz against Arnold. Pretty ugly politics.

[Tamzee]

Illegal aliens draining our finances and stretching our infrastructure to the breaking point. Arnold says they should stay.

He said the ones WORKING should not be automatically deported. He just supports allowing them to apply for temporary work permits (which also require criminal checks, BTW)

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

I'm sorry, but he refuses to fight for Prop 187. He has said we need to find a way to accomodate the 4 million illegals already here. He is against sending them back. Your candidate is pro-illegal. Any attempts to spin this and portray him otherwise is dishonest.

[ArneFufkin]

Your problem is that HP is looking to relocate in Boise, Fort Collins or Houston. Your problem is that companies can't afford to pay Workers Comp insurance premiums, and they're shutting down and moving to Arizona and Nevada. Your problem is your bond rating, your energy contracts, your State Union populations, pay plans, benefit packages and retirement pension outlays. Your problem is that when Intel, Cisco, Sun, Qualcomm and Apple's business does rebound, they're not planning on expanding in California, Hollywood is moving more production to Vancouver, More shipping and freight is coming through Seattle, you can't tap a motherlode you need and we need right off Santa Barbara, you can't develop land economically, your airports and urban highway systems are inadequate, you have too many state subsidized universities, you have too much easy welfare for illegals, legals and natives, your beaches and parks are poorly maintained and there's nothing to offer tourists to get them to pull the plane over on the way to Vegas.

Illegals are not your main problem. Democrat welfare pimps are your problem. That why the illegals are there. You have no number on the illegally resident, you have no survey of where they are and what they're doing. If I believed the hype on FR over the last 4 years, California would have 20 million illegal Mexicans by now. You're problem is the damn Democrat welfare industry and the courts that protect them. Fredrico just wants money to send home today, a steady job next week, a home with his wife and children next year, a college graduate daughter in 15years, and a tearful fathers pride watching his daughter, the doctor, graduate with honors from Medical School in 20 years.

Don't blame the illegals, you and I would do the same thing in the same life situation. Blame the Democrats, vote them out and lock the door.

It's the scorched earth ideology of people like you who've gotten California into this mess. You'd gladly blow up Schwarzenegger in some principled support of McClintock.

Blame yourself.

[ArneFufkin]

I'm sorry, but he refuses to fight for Prop 187.

What, specifically, can Governor Arnold do to "fight" for 187? What are his options, what action plan would you take as Governor?

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Lovely. Someone in Minnesota telling a Californian what California's problems are.

Idiot. I've worked the ERs in this state which are stretched to the breaking point. I've had countless welfare cards shoved under my nose by people who can't speak a word of English. I've traveled the overloaded, run down, trash strewn highways which are starting to resemble a third world country. I've applied for the jobs where a person MUST speak Spanish in order to be gainfully employed. This list goes on and on. This place IS becoming Mexico north and those illegals refuse to assimilate.

For you, this Spanish proverb applies, "En boca cerrada no entran moscas.

[Tamzee]

No, his position is EXACTLY what I said it is... any attempt to portray him otherwise is "dishonest" (nice try at the insult). I provide facts and evidence... you provide distortion to fit your agenda.
---

Solving the Immigration Impasse


Summary:

Immigration has been the engine of California's economic prosperity and the richness of our culture. Almost 9 million Californians were born in a foreign country and nearly 40% of all households in our state speak a second language in addition to English. We have a proud tradition of being one of the most ethnically diverse places in the world.

But it is important to ensure that new immigrants enter California the right way, so that they can get on a path toward fully participating, and contributing, to the California economy. And we should make sure that we do so without undermining important national security protections.

Full Policy:

There are approximately 8 million undocumented immigrants in the United States; 2.5 million reside in California. The costs of providing social services to these individuals and incarcerating illegal immigrants is staggering - easily exceeding $3 billion a year.

Clearly, the federal government must do a much better job of enforcing the security of our borders, especially in the aftermath of 9/11. Washington must also provide more money to border states like California which ultimately shoulder the burden and the costs associated with illegal immigration. And Washington should pursue a responsible immigration policy that offers undocumented immigrants a path to permanent legal status.

As someone who came to the United States thirty-five years ago looking for opportunity, I understand the challenges immigrants face and I will work hard to elevate the debate on this important issue.

Fair Reimbursement for Illegal Immigration Costs

Immigration is a national responsibility and California should not be left to shoulder the massive burden of providing public services to illegal immigrants.

Last year, California only received $220 million to offset the costs of keeping illegal immigrants in jail. This is insufficient, and as governor of California, I will work with Congress, President Bush, and the Governors of other border states to correct this situation.

As Governor I will:

Organize a coalition of states most impacted by immigration to lobby Congress. This coalition will include Texas, New York, New Mexico, Arizona, Florida, Illinois, in addition to California. Together, we represent 183 electoral votes. If we speak with a unified voice, Republicans and Democrats in Washington will listen.
Seek reimbursement from Washington for health care and education costs associated with illegal immigration.
Putting Immigrants on a Path toward Citizenship.

It is important to ensure that new immigrants enter California the right way, so that they can get on a path toward fully participating, and contributing, to the California economy. And we should make sure that we do so without undermining important national security protections.

As Governor, I will:

Aggressively lobby Washington to set a more responsible policy for addressing the undocumented immigrants currently in the United States.
Deportation is not an option. We need to find a way to legitimize these individuals and get them on a path toward legal residency status in the United States.
Let me be clear: I do not support an amnesty program. The last time we tried that in the late 80s it didn't work, and there's little reason to think it would work now.
I am encouraged by the approach laid out by Senator McCain to provide a clear path for legitimizing undocumented immigrants who currently live their lives in the shadows. McCain's bill S 1461 - The Border Security and Immigration Act of 2003
A new H-4A visa for immigrants seeking temporary employment with important protections to ensure that immigrant workers are not exploited and that Californians are not displaced by unscrupulous employers;
A new H-4B visa for undocumented immigrants who entered the country before August 2003, have held a job since that time, and do not have a criminal record.
The opportunity for holders of these new visas to gain legal permanent residency status.
" Senator McCain's plan contains the key principles that should guide any proposal to solve the immigration impasse:
U.S. Employer Benefits: A market driven employment process and an easy, effective means to confirm employment eligibility;
U.S. Worker Protections: Initial availability of jobs only to U.S. workers and periodic review to ensure that U.S. workers are not displaced;
Foreign Worker Protections: Applicability of all U.S. labor standards and portability so that workers may change jobs without jeopardizing their immigration status.
Punish Immigrant Smugglers and Human Traffickers

Human traffickers and smugglers exploit and endanger immigrants as they violate our criminal and immigration laws. As Governor, I will crack down hard on those who engage in illegal human smuggling:

Traffickers and smugglers should be prosecuted as organized crime syndicates. If their schemes result in death of immigrants, they should be eligible for the death penalty.
The federal Trafficking Victims Protection Act of 2001 establishes a special visa, the T-visa, for immigrants who assist in investigations. As governor, I will order state law enforcement officials to work with their federal counterparts to prioritize and process applications for T-visas expeditiously.
Promote English and Advance Citizenship

Immigrants who are not proficient in English pay a price: they earn 17% less than immigrants of similar backgrounds, experience, and education who are proficient in English.

Likewise, when English is the primary language taught in schools, immigrant children show marked improvement. In June 1998, California's voters gave a 61% landslide to public policy entrepreneur Ron Unz's Proposition 227 outlawing bilingual education. By the end of the following school year, immigrant 2nd graders in those California schools that were already in compliance with Prop. 227 were reading at the 35th percentile, compared to the 19th percentile for those in schools that were still bilingual.

As Californians bounded in diversity, we share a common language and culture regardless of our backgrounds.

As Governor, I will:

Work to improve education for all Californians and especially to help new immigrants learn English so they could participate and prosper as Californians.
Restore meaning to citizenship, so that all Americans, new and old, share the same commitment to tolerance, equality, and compassion.
Work with the federal government to provide expedited consideration of citizenship applications to immigrants whocomplete advanced civic education and English immersion programs.
SB 60 - Driver's Licenses for Illegal Immigrants

I am an immigrant. I waited for ten years to get my American citizenship. And I know first-hand how immigrants who come to this country and obey the laws have struggled to achieve their dreams.

But we should not invite fraud or undermine law enforcement. Attorney General Bill Lockyer, the California Sheriff's Association, and the federal government have all expressed security concerns over this measure, and in a time of heightened national security, we should not undermine our nation's immigration laws.

Unfortunately, Governor Davis decided to put his political interests above the people's interest. He signed SB 60 into law even though he vetoed similar legislation before, citing security concerns. But SB 60 actually contains fewer protections than the bill Davis vetoed a year ago.

Under SB 60, there is simply no way to verify that a drivers' license applicant is actually who he says he is or whether he is a criminal or fugitive from justice.

As Governor I will:

Work to repeal SB 60 as quickly as possible


http://www.joinarnold.com/en/agenda/#E1

[EGPWS]

No bubble burst, It makes little difference whether Arnold is worth a hundred mil or 800 mil. He was a very astute businessman, and will bring that knowledge to the job ahead.

Yes he is very impressive in his finances. Let's all hope that his financial saavy will bring contentment to the people of California if elected and not just to himself. After all, as you have stated, he has done a fabulous job of obtaining personal wealth...as Governor I hope those personal aspirations are behind him.

[ArneFufkin]

The problem is the "welfare card" not the person.

You can't get anybody elected to change your world. The Marxists are dancing on your butt and the riff-raff is ruling the world, but you have your principles.

Relief is on its way. Arnold is right, you have to locate, identify and process anybody walking in your midst who shouldn't be there. You can't roust 4 million Illegal Mexicans without rousting the 11 million legal Mexicans. They need to step up, that's going to require a promise of a temporary visitor visa while their identity, home, workplace and living conditions are vetted. Yeah, an amnesty. Take an inventory, bring people into the community with temporary lawful status. Get the house in order, find out who's working and who's on the dole, get the workers a labor visa and move the welfare deadbeats back to Mexico after their temporary visa expires if they cannot demonstrate independent support. But you have to locate them first.

Ultimately, you have no political platform to address your grievences. You'd willingly accept Arnolds forced withdrawl from the election even if you knew McClintock was going to lose.

You have nothing to bitch about. Your principles will rescue you, your principles make everything better. If those illegals knew how principled you are, they'd hotfoot south of the border post haste.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Stay in Minnesota and STFU. You have no idea what you are talking about.

[LaraCroft]

BZZZZZ,, wrong answer!

Illegal aliens are a problem, but they are not the 50 billion dollar problem.

Care to try again?

[LaraCroft]

Arnold is not perfect. Neither is McClintock. Neither is Bush. Should I wait to vote until I find a candidate that I really like and agree with?

Yes, with the lack of logic in the world, I can see why our country is in such a state.

Well, that and the fact that there seems to be no appreciable difference between Dems and Pubbies in office. They both expand government and spending.

[ArneFufkin]

Put up or shut up.

You contribute nothing to the solution. You're just hellbent on the Mexicans and how a guy who hasn't even been elected yet is doing nothing about them.

Why don't you pack you shit up, rent a van and move to another state? Are you under some court ordered home arrest?

I wouldn't stay in any community where the elected officials treated me so shabbily. There's 50 states. The Upper Peninsula of Michigan is relatively Mexican free. Miami! The Cubans try to keep the Mexicans out. Try Harlem, the Puerto Ricans and Jamaicans tease any Mexicans who wander in lost.

There are maps available showing different states.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

This is my home. I was born here and have lived here all my life. It is none of your business. Butt out.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

No, I got it right the first time.

[ladyinred]

You don't get where Arnold is by being stupid. I would guess he is actually quite smart. He has chosen to take his campaign directly to the people rather than to participate in silly debates with well learned responses. Good for him! We like that better!

How dishonest of those who try to say he is afraid to debate! Arnold has shown more courage than any of the others combined to keep on keeping on in spite of the slimey tactics of those who wish to shut him down!

The people of Ca. are not stupid either! We don't want or need politics as usual, which is what the debates are!

[Consort]

He will be elected not because of his intellectual capacity, but because people are comfortable with him. It is a squishy answer, but Californians are squishy people.

When I said "It's the voters, stupid" some people just couldn't get it and actually disagreed with me.

[ladyinred]

If you think Arnold's debate was so scripted, then you didn't watch it. But your "cute" little dig is noted. (yawn)

What's up with Sharon taking her husband's place? In the first place, under the recall law, he cannot be considered a candidate. Shows how bogus this debate is.