Smokers' houses harder to sell

Wilmington (DE) News Journal ^ | September 26, 2003 | Maureen Milford

[Gabz]

As tobacco has become less socially acceptable and home buyers are more aware of indoor air quality, houses that reek of cigarette smoke are becoming a harder sell, experts report.

"It definitely is a major turnoff," said Michael Wilson, a real estate agent with Prudential Fox & Roach Realtors in Brandywine Hundred. "Buyers immediately think about what they'll have to do to eliminate the odor. It's a real drawback and a real negative."

[VermiciousKnid]

Well, HamiltonJay...

Nana is 101 (102 in December). She was born in a magnificent but small Victorian house in Queens, NY. She has smoked in that house for literally 80 years. When she was a girl, the two fireplaces heated the structure, and when I was a girl, the house was still heated with a coal furnace.

The house contains pocket doors, leaded glass, marble-fronted fireplaces, octagonal rooms, front and back stairs, two clawfoot tubs, ceiling medallians and dentil mouldings.

Anything that should be white is WHITE. I know, because I clean them twice a year when we all head over there for spring and fall cleaning. The house is immaculate.

When she dies, the house will be sold. We will NOT get what it is worth and it has absolutely nothing to do with smoking. The fact is, Nana's house is in one of the very crappiest (and most dangerous) neighborhoods in New York City. I wish to God I could jack the damned thing up and move it to a decent neighborhood. If I could do that...we would get top dollar for it, no doubt about it. As it is now, though, we will get about $450K for it, and somebody will come in and rip all that lovely woodwork and plaster down in order to convert the house into illegal apartments whick will soon hold approximately 25 illegal aliens. I plan to call some experts in to carefully remove the beautiful things before it even goes on the market. No sense letting them go to waste -- I'll use the pocket doors, etc. in my own home. The new owners won't give a rat's clymer about antique ceiling medallions, so the price will be the same.

It seems to me that you are a shrewd businessman. You seek out properties that are in need of repair, you fix them up, and you sell them for a good profit. Bravo! That's the American Way. Try coming to a neighborhood like Douglas Manor in New York City (that's where I grew up). I guarantee that you will pay a king's ransom for even the smallest, most-in-need-of-TLC house. Why? Because the houses are one-of-a-kind. They are old. They are beautiful. And they have that most important of attributes: location, location, location.

Regards,

[SheLion]

I don't think any of us doubted the world has a wealth of hysterical nannies; were you just trying to prove it?

I think he drinks........

[SheLion]

I don't think any of us doubted the world has a wealth of hysterical nannies; were you just trying to prove it?

I think he drinks........

[Gabz]

Your nana's house sounds wonderful, marvelous and absolutley beautiful.

[auggy]

"Paint it orange."

If, I did, I wouldn't have to paint it again for about 30 years. Sounds good, but I think I will stick to white. Lol

[HamiltonJay]

Gabz,

I am more than willing to accept corruption in the RE field in deleware... However I don't view pointing out the obvious as an anti smoking Jihaad.

Houses with defects sell for less money and slower, its really nothing more than that, and that's the point I have been making since day one.

When a house is marketed that smells of smoke and/or has visible smoke build up, it is viewed by the buying public by and large as a defect. Just as a house that smells of cat or dog also has negative impact.

All I see in this article is a statement of the obvious. It has been by and large my experience that smokers homes, particularly heavy smokers homes are obviously detectable from the moment you walk in the door as being owned by smokers. The smell and visual signs do detract from the value, and lessen the demand.

I doubt many people are going, oh no, I can't own that because a smoker lived there... they are going, why would I pay full retail for a property I know I am going to have to paint and recarpet, when I can buy the next house over for the same price that doesn't need it? And unless you are in the insanely hot markets, this IS exactly what happens.

[CSM]

"And, yes, I could probably smell the smoke after the chemical cleaners and all the air freshners wore off."

I couldn't take reading your vile comments before I returned a comment of my own. IF YOU REGULARLY CLEAN YOUR HOUSE THE SMELL OF THE CLEANERS WON'T WEAR OFF! It is not the previous owners fault that you want to live in your own stench and filth!

[HamiltonJay]

Pittsburgh, PA... come on down.

[Gabz]

LOL.

I'm not trying to be facetious or anything, but you might want to try switching cigarette brands to one that doesn't have so many additives.

within 6 months after swtiching to making our own cigarettes my SIL, who has health problems and particularly notices cigarette smoke, thought we had stopped smoking in our house because she didn't smell anything.

Just an idea.

[CSM]

"No buyer, even one that smokes themselves considers walls weeping tar and other smoke related agents "clean". Smokers can object to the fact that I call this physical result of their smoking filth if they choose, but reality is that is exactly what it is viewed as. Looking at the wall that is pure white where the pictures were hanging, yet cream everywhere else, is considered dingy and filthy by buyers."

Hey jokester, it is a product of an individuals overall cleanliness. If a person never cleans their kitchen the walls and cabinets will be layered in grease. If a person never cleans their bathroom the walls will be layerd in hairspray and soapscum. Any unclean home will bring a lower price, regardless of the source of the filth!

You make statements that point to smoking as the only cause of dirt, when the reality is that it is a product of the individuals willingness to clean their home.

I guess by this threads comments it would be OK to state that buyers should just blatantly pay less for an Asians home. You know the smell permeats the house from their unique dietary habits. By the comment on this thread, it would be an acceptable behaviour to be racist with regards to real estate transactions!

Do you exclude renting your homes based on race or culture?

[HamiltonJay]

Gabz,

I have no issue with you claiming corruption in Deleware real estate, I have a huge issue when you and others claim that smoking, or more specifically the remnants of smoking do not negatively impact the selling time or price of a house.

Houses are a commodity, and any commodity with a noticeable defect will by and large not command the same price as the same commodity without one. With the exception being the collectors (coin, stamp etc) where the defects actually can add tremendously to the demand. In housing there really are house collectors by and large.

You come out of the gate calling my field of business corrupt, (class envy), and repeatatively have resorted to name calling in this thread. That sure as heck isn't any sort of conservative ideal.

All I see here is an article stating the obvious, smokers houses tend to sell lower and for less money. Not because they are owned by smokers, but because their homes are generally not even close to pristine condition, particularly if the owners are heavy smokers, when they go to sell them.

Malodorous smells, and visible build up negatively impact demand, regardless of what the cause of them are.

[HamiltonJay]

Vermiscious,

I agree that high demand will allow crap to sell for high prices... there are neighborhoods in my town that 10-15 years ago you couldn't give away, now with a yuppie/artsie influx from NYC in the last few years they go for ungodly amounts.

I have said from day one, home owners largely buy on EMOTION. I have seen the neighborhood effect you speak of, and I have seen the boom and bust cycles of urban renewal.

You are absolutely right, there are places and markets where anything no matter how bad can name their own price... this however is a very very very small part of the market, not the market as a whole. You are also right that there are smokers who do keep their houses pristine, with no evidence of smoke what so ever... those too in my experience are few and far between as well. It doesn't take long for a few pack a day smokers to get their walls that tell tale beige hue.

Defects affect salability of a house... and cleanliness is a HUGE one... if people walk in and smell, dog or cat or are overwhelmed by smoke smell, you are going to not get top dollar in the overwhelming majority of cases.

Tell your Nana happy birthday!

[VermiciousKnid]

It is, Gabz...too bad it's in Corona (over near Shea Stadium). The neighborhood is so bad, that Nana has been a virtual prisoner in her home for almost 20 years.

What a crying shame that LOCATION has devalued her home.

Regards,

[MrsEmmaPeel]

I’ve been looking at this thread and I notice quite a bit of anger here. If any is interested, here’s my take on this report. I used to be a smoker, but I am not one of those rabid anti-smoking Nazis. I’m too much a live-and-let-live kind of person. I believe that smokers have been persecuted unjustly.

I had a condo in LA. Frequently people would tell me that they never knew I smoked – the answer was ventilation. I also liked the color white and about 6 months before I decided to sell, I had the entire condo painted white – all the walls were cleaned – all bookshelves taken down – etc – a very thorough job was made. When fate handed me an opportunity, I decided to move. Having just recently cleaned the walls, I decided not to bother again. When it came time to remove the bookshelves – I was appalled to see how white some areas where compared to the remaining dark walls – in just 6 months. It was seeing that crud that convinced me that no matter how clean I may think a place may be, being a smoker, I’m unable to judge the effect I’m having in my environment. Seeing that brown gunk, propelled me on my private quest to give up smoking. But, that was my quest. Those who smoke, are welcome to it, without judgment from me. Mr. Peel likes a cigar every now and then. I’m not going to tell him “no”.

It wasn’t too long ago that we decided to shop for a house. A real estate agent was absolutely convinced that she had found the “perfect” place for us. So we took a look. We specified a house with a view, and when we arrived – there was no view. Already I was disappointed. Mr. Peel used to be an architect, is very highly critical of the structure of the house. We hadn’t even stepped a foot inside when he whispered to me: “Roof needs replacing – it won’t even last 2 more years.”. When we walked inside, I don’t know which was worse – the smell of stale cigarette smoke or dog pee on the carpet. I probably gave a look on my face that betrayed my disappointment. “Let me show you ..” the agent began. “No, thanks I’ve seen enough.” And we left.

Now from the agent’s perspective, we were probably turned off by the cigarette smoke. From our perspective, we turned off my the agent: promising a house that met our needs which did nothing of the sort. The cigarette smoke, the dog pee oders were just excuses not to continue. But if the house had any kind of view, I can forgive a lot. I can remodel a kitchen, etc. But I’m not interested if the location doesn’t interest me and if the asking price is, in my opinion too high. Before even setting foot inside the house, I knew we’d have to pay for a new roof. Whose at fault in this case? The agent would blame the smokers. I blame the agent for wasting our time with a house whose location did not interest us. And, yes, we got a new agent.

[CSM]

"There are always cases outside the trend, and I am glad you got your asking price... however it doesn't prove the fact that buyers don't penalize homes that smell or look of smoke. Which they most certainly do."

If a home doesn't smell like smoke, how do you know it was really owned by a non smoker? You are saying that all smokers homes smell of smoke, instead you should be saying that all homes that smell like smoke were owned by smokers. The homes that don't smell like smoke and were owned by a smoker are not on your radar at all. What would that ratio be?

[metesky]

Dawn Allen of North East, Md., saw the yellow film that collected on her television screen, the windowpanes and blinds in the house she lived in for 10 years. "It's almost like smoke damage if you had a fire. It permeates everything," Allen said.

Looks like Dawn never heard of spring cleaning. Poor dopey Dawn just thought she needed eye glasses.

[VermiciousKnid]

So we are agreed: Dirty, stinky houses and those that require TLC sell for less, regardless of the smoking habits of the former inhabitants. Location is key to a profitable sale.

But one of the other posters really hit the nail on the head when he said that this topic would NEVER get the attention it has if the article had merely been about "clean" houses vs. "dirty" ones. No, this topic is getting this kind of response ONLY because it mentions smoking.

I believe that articles like this one serve only one purpose: the continued demonization of smokers.

Look around you at the various and sundry behaviors and "lifestyle choices" in which your fellow citizens engage. NO OTHER "lifestyle choice" gets the negative attention that cigarette smoking gets, and not a single day goes by that doesn't have some article or news piece where smoking (and more importantly, SMOKERS) are villified.

Single parenthood is OK. Divorce is OK. 12 hours of daycare every day is OK. Homosexuality? OK. Adultery is OK. Criminal behavior -- even violent criminal behavior -- is not OK, but the perpetrators of the crimes are routinely given excuses for their actions -- they ALL have an excuse, and many, many people buy into them!

But smoking? And smokers? Why, they are "filthy." They have a "stench." They are "morons."

This is social engineering at its very worst and we should ALL be worried about it.

Regards,

PS: Several posters have mentioned having to clean "the rugs, the furniture, and the draperies" after moving in to a house. Is it common in some parts of the country for houses to be sold fully furnished? I have only rarely seen this happen here in New York. When one buys a house here, it is pretty much bare except for appliances and maybe a light fixture or two.

[Ditter]

You said "smokers are unable to judge the effect that smoking has". That is correct, it is not a matter of them being unclean or dirty, they are not. But inhaling smoke all the time, renders then unable to smell it to the degree that non smokers can. My daughter smokes & sometimes when she kisses my cheek she gets the smell on my face. She isn't dirty she just has a residue on her skin that I can smell. Until a smokers quits they don't realize this.

[Gabz]

However I don't view pointing out the obvious as an anti smoking Jihaad.

You wouldn't as you are obviously not familiar with the charlatans they claim as "experts" in this article.

I do not disagree, and have not disagreed, that houses with defects sell slower and for less. Your idea of a defect and mine differ, and that is what I have been saying from the get go.

As was said more than once on this thread, unless someone is buying a newly constructed property most people do plan on redoing floors and walls after buying a pre-existing home. The real estate agent we bought this place from in April offered us 20% more than we paid for it just last month because of the changes we have made in it.

You know what you know and I know what I know, my knowlege is no less valid than yours, both are based upon personal experience.

[steve-b]

More folks jumping on the bandwagon of lies

What lies? I wouldn't buy a house that had been smoked in for years any more than I would buy a house that had been occupied by dozens of cats. Who wants a stinky house?