Fate Of Stryker, Army's New Combat Vehicle, Will Be Set In Iraq

Post-Gazette ^ | September 28, 2003 | Jack Kelly

[Ex-Dem]

The Army is scrambling to fix a flaw in its newest armored vehicle -- the already troubled Stryker -- before sending it to Iraq next month for its first test in real combat conditions.

The Stryker is a 19-ton armored car that was supposed to combine the speed and quick deployability of light forces with considerable firepower and armor protection.

[archy]

Grayhound

That's a decent recon car. Quick enough and small enough to get outta there if something big opens up. Not a bad choice.

That's Greyhound to our British cousins, who also used several four-wheeled versions, both of their own design and the US twin-motored T17 *Staghound*

Yeah, the M20 was a fairly neat little vehicle. The Salvadorians fitted the quad fifty mount of the M55 AA gun, more usually seen in the back end of a Deuce-and-a-half or halftrack, and gave the little cars some teeth.

Back in the 1970s, I worked on an ordnance project to refit 20mm cannons in place of the M6 37mm gun of the M8, which gave the things a new life as internal security vehicles to some of those countries that had received the M8 and the M3 and M5 tanks as military aid.

It'd need upgraded armor on the front slope, a Diesel engine [I think a Detroit 6V17T conversion was available from the boffins in Minneapolis] and maybe clamshell personnel dors/ramps on the sides would bring it right up- to-date, then allowing the addition of some rolled chainlink for RPG screens. It wouldn't swim any better than a Stryker, but no worse, either, and less the RPG screens, you could get two, maybe three per C130 load.

They've been used as mortar vehicles, as well. And the French had one on display at Satory one year that had an AML turret with 90mm gun mounted....

[cavtrooper21]

Jeepers, we would never use the Army to Keep the peasants in line.... (Sarc!)
Yea I noticed that the vehicle works well on roads (we got lotsa roads here!!) stops most, if not all small arms ( No stocks of RPGs here in the USA, nosirree!) Can be equipped with nifty non-invasive surveillance equipment (all the better to look for those evil "militias").
In all, a great anti-civilian APC but not worth a Damn on the battlefield...
Clinton doctrine at its best....

[cavtrooper21]

Archy,
I still remember how to set the headspace and timing on a M2 HB flex .50 caliber Browning.
I've also used one in combat....
I vote for a Cummings in the M-8, tough engine, I've seen the bottom of the motor blown out and the damn thing still run long enough to get the crew out of trouble.
All will be most groovy as long as I get to put the little red and white pennant on the antenna.

[archy]

Archy,

I still remember how to set the headspace and timing on a M2 HB flex .50 caliber Browning.

Good news: the new FN quick-change barrell version has interchangable barrels; no headspacing required. Not sure about setting the timing, but I know an Ozzie ex-treadhead sandhat I can ask.

Even more interesting, there's a new XM312 .50 version under development very suitable for *free gun* and infantry use [42 pounds total- gun AND mount!] that can also supposedly be adapted to use a 25mm round as per the Bradley's Chain Gun- I think. There's also a reduced-power 25mm round being used in an adapted Barrett antimaterial rifle known as the *Payload Rifle* that may share its ammo with the 25mm/.50 MG.

I've also used one in combat....

Me too. Off tripods, in the M55 *quad .50 arrangement, off vehicle pintles, and in the aircraft version. I've never gotten to fly an aircraft that had fixed multiple .50s, but if you're good enough to get in close, they still have their uses, particularlky as a ground attack weapon and helicopter killer.

I vote for a Cummings in the M-8, tough engine, I've seen the bottom of the motor blown out and the damn thing still run long enough to get the crew out of trouble.

The Israelis used one Cummings Diesel as the replacement for the Hercules mogas engine in their M3 and M16 White halftracks. And, I think, a 500-HP Cummings Diesel in one version of their reengined Shermans.

All will be most groovy as long as I get to put the little red and white pennant on the antenna.

Red and white pennant? EEEEK! YANKEES!!!

[archy]

Yea I noticed that the vehicle works well on roads (we got lotsa roads here!!) stops most, if not all small arms ( No stocks of RPGs here in the USA, nosirree!)

Do not bet your life on that. Fullbore 12-gauge deer slugs [18.5mm] will knock holes through the CTIS-capable tire sidewalls large enough that the air compressor lines can't keep up with the pressure loss. And if RPGs are generally uncommon at present, heavy caliber rifles that will indeed knock holes in a Stryker's vulnerable spots are available; not just .50 target rifles, but up to and including 20mm Lahti and Solothurn AT rifles from early WWII, bear and moose hunting rifles in .338 Lapua magnum, .338 Winchester and the like, and other assorted goodies that will take care of anything up to and including a tank- including an Abrams.

And, of course, there are always mines, as the Iraqis have found out, and a flankside ramming from a light pickup with a couple of 5-gallon jerry cans of gasoline fixed on the front bumper and a 55-gallon or two more in the back would be no fun at all for those in either vehicle.

But so far as that goes, I doubt a 57mm M18A1 recoilless rifle from the Korean War of 55 years ago would have much trouble with Stryker armour or tyres.

[Valin]

Bump for the morning

[.cnI redruM]

That would explain the emphasis on Schofield, Ft Lewis and Ft Richardson. Prior to reading that, I questioned putting all of these eggs, however fragile, in a Pacific Rim basket. The IBCT deployments now seem more reasonable and intelligent. Now if they just could get a functional armored vehicle.....

[Darksheare]

Yeah, I'm kinda nervous about the Stryker being used for that myself.
When I was in uniform (7Aug1996-31May2001 ETS7Aug2002) it was quietly asked within my unit if we would fire on American civilians if the UN told us to.
Prior to this quiet inquiry I had heard of such BS being done, and I grabbed all of 'my boys' and we let it be known, loudly, that any idiot in a baby blue bonnet telling us to fire on our own countrymen would be riddled with holes.
We had one idiot, former Marine supposedly, state that 'h#ll yeah he would'.
Personally, I don't see how any former Marine would think that was a good idea.
We figured he was a washout from Marine basic.

Anywhoos, we wondered how many units were asked if they would follow UN orders to fire on fellow Americans.
As well as how many people said that they would.

[archy]

When I was in uniform (7Aug1996-31May2001 ETS7Aug2002) it was quietly asked within my unit if we would fire on American civilians if the UN told us to.

Prior to this quiet inquiry I had heard of such BS being done, and I grabbed all of 'my boys' and we let it be known, loudly, that any idiot in a baby blue bonnet telling us to fire on our own countrymen would be riddled with holes.

We had one idiot, former Marine supposedly, state that 'h#ll yeah he would'.

Interesting. The way the question was put to me by the smiling 05 who's my endorsing officer, was whether or not I'd fire on US troops making war on US citizens.

After I told him that I'd not only fire on them, but bayonet them to make sure, run over them to set an example for my troops, and string the remains up from the nearest utility pole as a warning to other traitors, I not only got my usual attaboy, but another damn promotion and more damn paperwork.

But I've got some interesting ideas for skyblue beanies and helmets myself. Don't necessarily dismiss them out of hand....

-archy-/-

[Darksheare]

I sometimes wonder why such questions were being asked.
Part of my reply was that we were sworn to protect uphold an defend the Constitution of the US, not the UN charter.
The supposed former Marine was quite ecstatic over possibly being told by the UN to shoot at his own countrymen.
My captain at the time was a Shinsekibot, and would drone-like follow the UN wherever they went.

I don't know who initially made the inquiry, but it was surprisingly quietly asked. The Cap made a flowery show of telling us we'd follow his orders or else.
I made a point of letting it be known that such an order would be considered illegal.
It was soon afterwards that anyone who disagreed with the Cap on this had their paperwork messed with, things lost and such.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Air Force to start $150M in construction at Hickam

Hawai'i was selected for a squadron of Boeing C-17 Globemaster IIIs, the Air Force's latest-generation transport, because of its proximity to potential Asian and Pacific hot spots, and because the C-17s will be available to transport the $1.5 billion Stryker Brigade, a fast response unit that the Army is planning to base in Hawai'i.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

NEW WORLD ORDER COMBAT ARMS SURVEY/ I WOULD FIRE UPON U.S. CITIZENS...

From 1998

[Darksheare]

Interesting.
And didn't Hillary brag about this one, mentioned in the linked thread:"There are probably a lot on FR that know of at least one story of the Clinton Whitehouse abuse ot the Marine Guard. Like Hillary throwing coffee in a young Marine guards face because he wouldn't leave his post to fetch her more coffee. DISGUSTING TRASH THAT SHE IS!"
I had heard the rumor that she had harmed a Marine guard, but not how.
Also hear that she had been bragging about it somewhere.

We were never given a questionairre, we were asked 'quietly' verbally. More or less, the Cap told us we would do as told.
And this was done in a National Guard unit, which is way far away from being a Navy or Marine Corps unit.
Wonder what the connection is, and why it was done?

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Stryker brigade would not have to use Makua

The biggest change would be the need for more training lands in Wahiawa near Schofield Barracks and on the Big Island at Pohakuloa Training Area and a secondary road leading to it from the boat harbor at Kawaihae.

This would break down to the construction of seven new ranges, two airfield upgrades, 13 support facilities and 20 antennas. Construction would run through 2007, when the transformation is expected to be completed.

To meet the proposed changes the Army wants to:

Acquire 1,400 acres adjacent to Schofield Barracks to build a motor pool, artillery firing point, pistol and rifle ranges, and to build new roads.

Expand the use of PTA on the Big Island by no more than 23,00 acres to meet the needs of brigade’s new mobile cannons and purchase 109 acres to build a road from Kawaihae to PTA.

Construct 24 buildings as part of a mock city structure at the Kahuku training area to meet the division’s need to learn how to fight in urban terrain.

Upgrade the airfield at Wheeler Army Air Field in Wahiawa to accommodate C-130 operations.

Senator Shinseki is going to build MGS ranges whether MGS ever gets fielded or not.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

The Combat Arms Survey

The Combat Arms Survey was designed by Lt. Cdr. Guy Cunningham, USN as part of the requirements for his Masters Degree program at the Naval Postgraduate School, Montery, California.

The survey instrument was administered at the Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Training Center, Twenty-Nine Palms, California, on May 10, 1994, by the researcher and an enlisted staff member of the Marine Corps Public Affairs Office (PAO). The survey was administered to 300 U.S. Marines, 293 enlisted, and 7 officers.

The purpose of the survey was to gather data on the attitude of combat-trained soldiers towards participating in non-traditional missions while under United States or United Nations operational command and control.

The survey contained 46 questions. The last question, question 46, produced startling and alarming results [See Question 46], and triggered an intense debate that still boils.

[Darksheare]

I'm still wondering why my unit, an Army National Guard unit, was asked the question at all.
And what the connection between my unit and that questionairre is.
In light of it initially being asked to Marines and Navy, it makes absolutely no sense to me.

Maybe I'm not looking at it in the right way or from the right angle.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Tread Head Ping No. 1

Murphy’s Laws of Armor

27. It is cruel to tell motorized infantrymen “Damn, that Stryker looks like a BMP!” — particularly when live rounds are being issued."

[.cnI redruM]

Cool. The Army will own every parcel of land from Honolulu to Haleiwa. There goes the whole pineapple crop.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

See post 97

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Y'all like my new tag line?