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Anger overmanagement: Some men simply can't get mad
Star Tribune ^ | September 29, 2003 | H.J. Cummins

Posted on 09/28/2003 5:30:04 PM PDT by wallcrawlr

When a mighty force overstuffs a container, it shatters.

Scott Trobec shattered, in 1996, after a lifetime of never saying an angry word to anyone.

Sound impossible? Not to mental health experts who counsel men suffering from what could be called anger over-management. These men don't know how to get mad.

They are not just gentle or easy-going types, the experts stress. They are the opposite extreme of the common view of men and anger -- violent, out-of-control guys who stab their wives or beat their children or shoot up the office where they got fired -- and they leave a different, more private path of destruction.

Many fall into depressions, failed marriages or lonely, solitary lives. Some have even been linked to legacies of family violence, almost like "carriers" passing along illnesses that they themselves don't catch.

There's no count of these men. Indeed, there is no "over-passive condition" recognized in the standard guide to psychiatric illnesses, the DSM IV (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) of the American Psychiatric Association.

But specialists in men's mental health issues say it's time for science and society to catch on. They attribute the lag to gender stereotypes -- people also have trouble seeing men as victims of domestic violence, they say -- and to the fact that these men aren't disturbing the peace.

St. Paul psychologist David Decker likens these men to the Jack Nicholson character in "About Schmidt," an insurance actuary whose bland life was controlled by his job and his wife.

"Schmidt is the kind of guy I'm talking about," Decker said. "He lives out the standard expectations of men -- the breadwinner, the solid citizen -- but he feels no human connection, in part because he doesn't deal with emotions, including anger.

"To be honest, I don't know that a lot of people would see that as a problem," Decker said. "In terms of society, he was very productive. But in terms of meaning in his life, there was little, if any."

Trobec, now 42, grew up in Cottage Grove. He graduated from St. John's University in Collegeville, Minn., in 1983, got married and started to build a CPA practice in St. Paul.

His No. 1 adjective for himself was "normal."

He thrived in a career of digits and details, until night terrors overtook him in 1996. He screamed in his sleep, terrifying his wife, Sarah. Days, he found himself distracted by an obstinate sadness.

To his own astonishment, memories of physical and sexual abuse by a relative gathered in his mind. Another family member could confirm enough about those times to convince Trobec and his therapists that the memories of assaults -- from ages 6 to 13 -- were true.

St. Paul psychologist Mic Hunter said childhood abuse is often the reason men shut anger out of their lives. As boys, it wasn't safe to get mad at the person who beat them; the abuser would just get madder, Hunter said. And young boys blame themselves when they're sexually assaulted.

As Trobec now says, "I was being assaulted by someone I loved and who loved me. So I thought I deserved it, that there must be something terribly wrong with me."

Hunter said the unspoken pledge among some of these boys becomes: "If this horrible thing is what it means to be angry, I will never be angry." They can grow into men who feel that no demand from a spouse or employer or friend is too much. They also can become fathers incapable of disciplining their own children who then -- never having been required to control themselves -- turn into abusive parents themselves.

"That's how you get these things skipping a generation," Hunter said.

It's often wives who refer these men to the anger management program at the Men's Center in Minneapolis, said program director Herb Jaehne.

"They'll say, 'I can't get any reaction out of him,' or, 'He just says whatever he thinks I want to hear,' " Jaehne said.

Trobec understands the dynamic. "This wasn't something going on consciously," he said, "but I had learned that I didn't matter, that I survived by taking care of other people."

He remembers getting angry about a handful of things, but only at a safe distance -- emotionally and physically -- from his life: a referee who made a bad call in New York, or a terrorist on the other side of the world.

"And the places where I could feel anger, it seemed all out of proportion," he said.

Trobec said his wife talks not so much about his lack of anger through the years, but his lack of joy. By shutting down his anger, he said, he stifled all emotion.

Reality check

Hunter said part of these men's distorted view of anger is its all-or-nothing state. They see nothing between rage and capitulation: "I'll say, 'What about discipline?' and they don't even know what that is."

He gives them assertiveness assignments. In one, the client has to go into a coffee shop and order coffee. When the clerk asks, "Do you want cream?" he is to say no. Then, when the cup comes, he is to say, "I changed my mind, I do want cream."

"Some men can hardly do this," Hunter said.

On a deeper level, therapy tries to help men remember the source of their timidity, so they can understand and then overcome its influence.

It worked this way for Trobec one recent day: A dissatisfied client became menacing on the phone. "Are you threatening me?" Trobec asked him. The caller's rant got worse. Trobec hung up on him, after silently talking his way through a practiced message.

"I know that as a child I learned that I 'just had to take it,' his message to himself goes. "But I'm an adult. I'm safe. I don't have to take this. Now I can put a different ending on this story."

(Excerpt) Read more at startribune.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: anger; apa; dsmiv; males; mentalhealth; psychology
Is this you?
1 posted on 09/28/2003 5:30:04 PM PDT by wallcrawlr
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To: wallcrawlr
YEs, it's me. I'm an easy-going, mild-mannered gentlemen who never gets mad, you %&*@%#@(%#(@%@(^%(*&@&%
2 posted on 09/28/2003 5:35:09 PM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (I like my women like I like my coffee - Hot, and in a big cup)
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To: wallcrawlr
Scott Trobec shattered, in 1996, after a lifetime of never saying an angry word to anyone.

I don't get it. What'd he do in 1996? Man, I hate these cliffhangers...

3 posted on 09/28/2003 5:40:00 PM PDT by inquest (World socialism: the ultimate multinational corporation)
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To: wallcrawlr
We know what happens to these guys in the end...


4 posted on 09/28/2003 5:41:14 PM PDT by egarvue (Martin Sheen is not my president...)
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To: inquest
The night terrors and the extreme sadness.
5 posted on 09/28/2003 5:43:02 PM PDT by ItisaReligionofPeace ((the original))
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To: Chad Fairbanks
Some research states those of us abused by angry,castrating hysterical mother ,are more prone to cancer!
6 posted on 09/28/2003 5:44:50 PM PDT by wiseone
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To: wallcrawlr
I'm sorry - I don't buy it.

My ex-husband was a miserable, abusive SOB, his identical twin was the exact opposite.

My husband is generally an easy going kinda guy, but when he decides he's going to lose his temper..........he's not violent at all - but he is one to be reckoned with.

Fortunately, in 15 years, I've only seen it happen twice.


7 posted on 09/28/2003 5:45:09 PM PDT by Gabz (Smoke-gnatzies - small minds buzzing in your business - SWAT'EM)
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To: ItisaReligionofPeace
I see. The way the sentence was phrased - "after a lifetime of never saying an angry word to anyone" - coupled with the prior sentence about an overstuffed container, led me to believe that he had finally shown anger with a vengeance.

Anyway, glad to see that he's getting some help.

8 posted on 09/28/2003 5:46:19 PM PDT by inquest (World socialism: the ultimate multinational corporation)
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To: wallcrawlr
Depression. Anger turned inward.

Taking a pill is not going to make it go away.

9 posted on 09/28/2003 5:46:28 PM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Been there. Done that. Got the T-Shirt. Sold it on e-bay.)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear
Frustrated anger, with no hope of satisfaction, mrphs into depression. I understand totally.
10 posted on 09/28/2003 5:52:33 PM PDT by johnb838 (Deconstruct the Left)
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To: wallcrawlr
I'm deeply disappointed....
11 posted on 09/28/2003 5:52:49 PM PDT by clintonh8r (A gentleman should know something about everything and everything about something.)
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To: wallcrawlr
yup.

Although I was hoping to snap off and go crazy one day.


Interesting article.
12 posted on 09/28/2003 5:52:51 PM PDT by JakeWyld (How do you like them apples!)
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To: wallcrawlr
THESE @#$! PSYCHIATRISTS THINKING THEY CAN JUST CATEGORIZE EVERYONE AND SOLVE EVERYONE'S PROBLEMS WITH THEIR INANE ADVICE JUST MAKE ME WANT TO ... sip an icy cold pina colada. Mmmm.... that's pretty good!
13 posted on 09/28/2003 6:17:17 PM PDT by explodingspleen
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To: wallcrawlr
Ned Flanders.
Anyone remember that particular episode?
Okely Dokely.
14 posted on 09/28/2003 6:19:04 PM PDT by SJSAMPLE
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To: wallcrawlr
Some have even been linked to legacies of family violence, almost like "carriers" passing along illnesses that they themselves don't catch.

Great, so now the feminist bitches can vilify every man for abuse, even men who have never laid a finger on their wives. These people are impossible to please and should be ignored.

--ccm

15 posted on 09/28/2003 6:49:55 PM PDT by ccmay (Beware the fury of a patient man. -- Dryden)
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To: wallcrawlr
The subjects of this article are need of serious help, but for the rest of us who need to blow off a little steam at the end of the day, I highly recommend Grand Theft Auto: Vice City or GTA3....
16 posted on 09/28/2003 7:01:36 PM PDT by Welsh Rabbit
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To: Gabz
So the article is a lie and everything it mentions is also ficticious? You base this assertion upon your knowledge of two men? I think that's a bit of a logical leap.
17 posted on 09/28/2003 7:09:15 PM PDT by =Intervention= ( When you vote your own principles, there's always a winner -- YOU.)
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To: =Intervention=
the article is a lie and everything it mentions is also ficticious?

Ummm...I don't know about everything is fictitious...but the "recovered memories" thing, particularly given that the abuse is supposed to have continued past his thirteenth year makes me supicious.

'Course maybe it was a coven of Satanists...one of the tens of millions that plague our fair land. (snort)

18 posted on 09/28/2003 7:21:07 PM PDT by fourdeuce82d
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To: =Intervention=
I didn't say the article was anything - just said I didn't agree.

I also mentioned 3 men, not only 2.

If you are going to attack me, please get what I say correctly.

And in the future - just ignore my posts, it will probably make both of us much happier.
19 posted on 09/28/2003 7:49:40 PM PDT by Gabz (Smoke-gnatzies - small minds buzzing in your business - SWAT'EM)
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To: wallcrawlr
I dunno. I am usually very good natured and happy person. I get 'alienated' before I get mad - that is to say, if someone pushes my buttons for kicks, I'll act like an idiot and be above it all, but usually a permanent scism forms, and I'll never be there to help that person (ever).

As for really getting angry, the last time it happened to me was about 2 years ago, when a friend had been disloyal to me. I recovered quickly, but was always alienated after that.

Before then? about 2 years earlier, I was getting really crapped on by my office and lost it. That's probably the angriest I have ever been, really. It dissipated quickly, almost completey dissolved within a few days, but I was always alienated after that - I quit my job after launching a job search only a few months later.

So I rarely get very angry, but when I do, I usually mean it. In my case, it usually redefines the relationships, permanently.
20 posted on 09/28/2003 7:55:04 PM PDT by HitmanLV (I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.)
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