Posted on 09/26/2003 1:51:14 PM PDT by bedolido
Sept. 26— On your wedding day you assume you'll have a long future together filled with love, intimacy, maybe kids, and of course, sex. Cheryl Wolfe assumed sex would be part of her marriage.
Watch John Stossel's full report on 20/20 this Friday at 10 p.m.
She was mistaken. "Marriage was never consummated … The day we got married there was no sexual relationship at all, no honeymoon night and from that point forward — nothing," Wolfe said.
She isn't alone. Marriage therapists estimate as many as 20 percent of couples are mired in low-sex or no-sex marriages, and surprisingly often it's the men, heterosexual men, who don't want sex. Wolfe ultimately left her husband because he lost sexual interest in her.
Men's Low Sex Drive Rarely Discussed
Lori and Jim Barrett and Suzan and Chris Cummings — two couples who say their marriages are in trouble because they rarely have sex — bravely agreed to talk with 20/20 about it, and then to work with marriage therapist Michele Weiner-Davis to see if they could make things better.
In both cases it's the women who are frustrated that their sexual needs aren't being met by their husbands.
Barrett said, "I feel like we're living like brother and sister, because we don't have sex. I'm like what kind of relationship is this? This is awful."
Jim Barrett's someone people might call a manly guy. He's a motorcycle enthusiast, and a volunteer firefighter. He says sex has simply never been a high priority for him. He and Lori have two children, and they do have sex maybe (10 times a year,) which is too seldom for Lori, but plenty for Jim. He says sex has just never been that important to him.
But it is important to Lori and to Suzan Cummings.
Susan says sex is the "foundation" of a marriage. "It's not sharing the bank account, and the car, and the toilet," she said.
Suzan and Chris Cummings have been married for six years. She has a daughter by a previous marriage and together, she and Chris have a son, Connor. Susan says sex was infrequent before Connor was born and afterward, Chris seemed less and less interested. Now it's been 15 months since they've had sex.
Chris says he doesn't see why sex has to be such a big deal. In fact, he's happy in their marriage without the sex. "From my perspective it's wonderful. I would say that if sex wasn't important for Susan, if she never wanted to have sex again, I think, I would probably be very happy," he said.
The Barretts' and Cummings' problems aren't surprising to Davis, who's been counseling couples for two decades and is author of Sex-Starved Marriage.
"I'm convinced that low desire in men is America's best kept secret," Davis said.
According to Davis, women in low-sex marriages tend to think their situation is unique. "They start to wonder whether they're the only women in the world who are married to guys who aren't following them around the house with a permanent erection," she said.
Lori Barrett said her husband's lack of desire has been tough on her self image. "First it was for me almost like, 'What's wrong with you,' … and then I was like, 'What's wrong with me — he doesn't want me!'"
Davis said it's common for the partner who's not getting their sexual needs met to feel unwanted or unloved. "When this major disconnect happens," Davis said, "intimacy on all levels tends to drop out, and it puts the marriage in a danger zone."
Bedroom Troubles Boil Over
When one partner is unhappy in the bedroom, it often creates tension that spills into other aspects of the marriage.
The Barretts agreed to let 20/20 put a camera in their home, and sure enough, there was a lot of bickering going on.
Jim said he feels like he's walking around the house on eggshells. Lori and Jim both say it's usually Lori who's on Jim's case.
Lori thinks there'd be less tension in their marriage if there were more sexual intimacy in it. She begged Jim to go to a doctor to have his testosterone levels checked and see if his problem is physical. He won't do it.
"Yeah, let's send Jim to the doctor. He's broke," he said. But he doesn't think there's anything wrong with him physically. He thinks it's an issue of trust, and that he can't just be himself.
They're caught in a trap. Lack of sex makes Lori frustrated, and Jim says he's not in the mood for sex because Lori is so critical. If she weren't so critical, Jim says, he might be turned on to his wife.
"Things'd be a lot more relaxed and we'd probably be a lot closer. Yeah. We'd probably have a lot better physical relationship," he said.
Don't Ignore the Problem
There are many factors that can cause low desire in men, say the experts. It might be anger toward a spouse or a physical issue, but all say whatever the cause, the worst thing to do is nothing — especially when sex is a priority for your partner — as it is for Suzan Cummings.
Chris says he loves Suzan but he worries about not being able to please her sexually. He says he always suffered some level of performance anxiety, and it's only gotten worse over time.
He tried Viagra, but it didn't work. Chris hasn't initiated sex with Suzan in about three years and he says it's gotten to the point he's afraid to initiate any physical contact with Suzan.
"At this point," he said, "the kissing and the hugging and the holding, has kind of signified, has come to signify the, desire to go farther."
Chris's fear of having sex with Suzan is pretty ironic since she works as an exotic dancer. She performs at a strip club, where men pay big bucks to watch women strut around in sexual ways. Suzan is one of the star attractions — lots of men come to the club just to see her. At one time Chris was one of them. That's how they met.
Chris says he still finds Suzan sexually attractive but his anxiety dampens his desire for her.
But he hasn't entirely lost his sex drive. He says "it gets satisfied through masturbation."
Chris says he knows his predicament sounds odd. "I realize that obviously I look like a schmuck on TV. It's extremely humiliating to get up and speak publicly about the fact that I'm not good in bed or that I can't satisfy my wife. I'm not proud of it," he said.
Suzan says she used to try reaching out to Chris sexually, but she's given that up. She said it was painful for her to feel rejected by her husband. "I value myself, um my sexuality as a woman. And to have it turned down over and over repeatedly says you have no value as a sexual being. … I need to feel loved. And I feel loved through sexual contact."
Suzan said the practical aspects of their relationship works fine, but overall she feels the relationship is cold and lonely.
Watching them at home with 20/20 cameras, it sure looked that way. There was no physical affection, and barely any interaction between them. It was almost as if they were leading parallel lives. After dinner Chris went downstairs to play video games, while Suzan sat by herself at the computer, surfing the Web.
Suzan said this is what happens night after night. "That's the exciting life of a stripper on her days off," she said.
More importantly, Suzan said she thinks there's a good chance they'll break up if things don't change.
Working It Out
Davis sat down with the Barretts, and Lori quickly revealed how deep her sense of rejections runs.
"Growing up I had a family an extended family that was constantly teasing me about how I looked and it really hurt me a lot, and so when I had my husband … this person I felt loved me, married me, and then did the same thing, rejected me. It's been very, very hard."
For Jim, hearing Lori say she felt unloved, rather than just barking at him, provides a different perspective, says Davis. "That's the catalyst for change, to truly understand what your partner is feeling, to be in their hearts, rather than to sit as so many couples do and point fingers," Davis said.
Davis says it's important for high-desire partners like Lori to understand that some people just have low sex drives and her husband is probably one of them What Jim has to do, she says, is to act sexually toward Lori even at first if he's not in the mood for sex. She says low-desire partners should try to just do it. Use it or lose it.
According to Davis, "The more a person is sexually active, the more it actually stimulates testosterone production, which is one of the primary hormones responsible for sex drive."
In Suzan and Chris's case, that's not so easy, because Chris now is afraid he can't perform. He knows it hurts Suzan. During their session with Davis, Suzan told Chris, "I don't understand how you can you love me, and not be there for me physically. How you could let me feel that way about myself?"
Davis' advice to them is to start touching each other affectionately with the understanding, at first, that they will not have sex. That will take pressure off Chris. Suzan said she'd be happy just to have simple affection, and Chris said he was surprised and relieved to hear that would be enough.
A month later, things were definitely better for Lori and Jim. He had initiated more sexual contact, and she said she made an effort not to nag.
Suzan and Chris were happier too. "First of all we're having sex," Chris said, "Not as much as we'd like, but that's the biggest fundamental change."
They needed another counseling session with Davis before Chris could really relax and feel it was OK to touch Suzan without it leading to intercourse and the fear of failure that gave him.
The couple says their renewed intimacy has brought other benefits.
Suzan said, "You feel good about yourself. When you feel good about yourself you can show love to your partner. You know it might not last forever until you're 90 but it gives you a warm, loving basis to go on, you know you feel loved."
For more information on Michele Weiner-Davis, visit her Web site at www.DivorceBusting.com.
It makes me wonder that if you'd had your own secret lover, he's still be alive, though. Sorry about that.
Really its not low sex drive most of the time. Its really not.
The choice of words makes it sound like some kind of medical condition.
More than anything its a mental issue.
Guys with that problem 9 times out of 10 are sick of the 'consequences' or are scared of them. One of the two. If the female is literally never pleased with anything then to hell with her. Its not worth dealing with.
If I am going to get in trouble with the community, including but not limited to her friends, thats not worth it either. If she is going to try and degrade me into doing what she wants... off with her.
Based on my experience single females are very hateful. If a guy shows interest in her she is first and foremost out with her friends talking about it and discussing things. The hatefulness coupled with the big mouth leads to BIG problems.
If she wants her friends she can have them. If she wants me she can have me.
She cannot have both. Her friends better have some limits attached to them otherwise I am over and out.
I find that another issue is the community pandering to the wants of the women.
As someone else said, guys are punished for being guys. Either by peer pressure, or mentally.
Quite simply, there is very little a guy can do right other than spend money on the girl. That is how guys are treated.
If money is most important why share it with someone else? Thats my motto. Let them buy their own stuff.
If they want a relationship we can do that too. But not both. The money comes after, meaning a LONG time after, the relationship has been established.
The solution is for over a long period of time to show basic respect towards men, and to be honest and trustworthy. Most men grow up without any of the three.
Guys are raised (sometimes) with the notion that to want sex is disrespectful towards women. The women are often raised with the same attitude.
Thats the foundation for all of this crap.
First, let me say that I hope you find peace, soon.
Second, let me say you're absolutely right about having authority over another. Authority and control is not the answer to a thriving, healthy relationship.
I understand your aversion to divorce and admire you're willingness to make things work. But your not being fair to yourself, by hanging on to something, that by your own description, is beyond the point of saving.
Whatever you decide, I wish you luck.
Maybe a vain few but most men aren't choosy about where they put that thang
I know how you feel. Just remember one thing, that whatever went wrong, don't put the blame all on yourself. And keep looking, "the right one" is out there,you just have to find her.
I used to laugh when I heard that, until it I found her.
Dark, give yourself a chance at a happier life. I have gotten the impression from your posts that you are still quite young. While commitment to your vows is a virtue, Val and others have rightly pointed out that the covenant between you and your wife has already been broken by her, thereby releasing you to consider other options.
The lyrics are by husband/wife songwriting team Alan and Marilyn Bergman. They have been marreid for many years. It musically and lyrically takes on this issue. (The song has been recorded by many, most notably and wonderfully by Frank Sinatra)
How do you keep the music playing?
How do you make it last?
How do you keep the song from fading
too fast?
How do you lose yourself to someone
and never lose your way?
How do you not run out of new things
to say?
And since you know we're always changing
How can it be the same?
And tell me how year after year
You're sure your heart will fall apart
Each time you hear his name?
I know the way I feel for you is now or never
The more I love, the more that I'm afraid
That in your eyes I may not see forever, forever
If we can be the best of lovers
Yet be the best of friends
If we can try with every day to make it better as it goes
With any luck than I suppose
The music never ends
I know, the way I feel for you is now or never
The more I love, the more that I'm afraid
That in your eyes I may not see forever, forever
If we can be the best of lovers
yet be the best of friends
If we can try with every day to make it better as it goes
With any luck than I suppose
The music never ends
_____________________________________________
So see everyone, I AM a sensitive guy.
(My take on the guys with lowered sex drive is simply they are not turned on by their wives. Put Britney Spears with the dude and see how low his libido and testosterone is. Fact of life.)
Well, yeah, you are misinterpreting.
If I had my way it wouldn't be that much about getting laid at all. Never mind "cheaply"...
I want a girl who is going to be friends with me.
Now, lets define friends.
For me, with the guys, I will buy them all dinner. Its no thing.
Next time around they are inviting me over to watch the game...
When its done right friendship isn't about money at all. We will have fun eating McDonalds. Its about having a personality match and someone who acts like a friend. You could tell them what you are thinking and thats as far as it goes...
Being trustworthy and dependable is huge.
How does that relate to sex in marriage? In my opinion the relationship is about all the other stuff other than sex. Once the other stuff gets sorted out the sex part won't be that big of an issue.
Was he in the Mafia? Mafia men supposedly won't have sex with their wives except to have children because their wives are the mother of their children.
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