Anger at Vatican plan to ban altar girls

Gaurdian (UK) ^ | 24 September 2003 | John Hooper

[Lorianne]

A heated battle has been joined in the Vatican between moderates and conservatives over a directive, called for by the Pope, that would bar altar girls and stop millions of Roman Catholics around the world dancing, or even clapping, in their churches. _________________

Anger at Vatican plan to ban altar girls

John Hooper in Rome Wednesday September 24, 2003 The Guardian

A heated battle has been joined in the Vatican between moderates and conservatives over a directive, called for by the Pope, that would bar altar girls and stop millions of Roman Catholics around the world dancing, or even clapping, in their churches. The document would also clamp down on adult, lay pastoral assistants. It would forbid priests during sermons quoting from ethical texts other than the Gospels. And it would rank services jointly celebrated with Protestant ministers or Orthodox priests alongside black masses as one of the four "most serious" abuses

In a clear effort to block, or, at least dilute, the measure, a leaked text of the draft was this week published in Jesus, the monthly review of the Society of St Paul, an international Catholic organisation.

One Vatican insider was yesterday quoted by the Rome newspaper Il Messaggero as saying it contained "idiocies so mad as to incite fear".

The document was compiled by officials from two Vatican ministries, responsible for doctrine and liturgy, after the Pope called earlier this year for new guidelines on the way masses are held. Many clerics had complained that liberalisation and experiment in recent decades had left them not knowing what was allowed.

Catholics in western, and particularly northern, Europe are likely to be most taken aback by the Vatican officials' determination to block one of the few means of participation in church ritual for women.

The draft text states that priests should only allow girls to help them at mass if they have a special dispensation from their bishop and there is "just cause", which Italian commentators took to mean an absence of boys. According to the leaked draft, priests ought "never to feel themselves obliged to recruit girls".

In developing countries, where the Catholic church now has most of its members, the most controversial injunction will be the one banning "applause and dance within the place of worship, even outside the celebration of [mass]".

Dance is an integral part of worship in Africa and Asia and has figured in numerous services attended by the Pope. Clapping is also commonplace in Italy at weddings, baptisms and even during funerals.

The draft "instruction" was reportedly tabled in June and came in for stiff criticism at a meeting of the two departments. A final version is due to be published this year.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

No, no, no! I didn't mean to make you uncomfortable.

We'll drop the subject.

No harm meant.

[BlackElk]

At Maryz's request, I am going to answer, but privately.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

That really isn't necessary. I didn't mean to delve too deeply into a sensitive subject. We can just drop it.

[SouthernFreebird]

As always, I prefer that putrid and irrelevant remarks be left up as mute testimony against the people who make them.

How about you stop making it appear that I said foul things on this thread. I mentioned the queer priests who have been molesting children for decades. You keep accusing me of a foul sewer mouth and I don't deserve that from this thread.

I'm no angel and I have my times but saying the church has bigger issues to deal with, like the pedo priests is not deserving of the attacks you have thrown at me.

P.S. notice I don't need to ping the Admin.

[ArrogantBustard]

I pinged the admin to let him/her/it know about my preference that your foul post suggesting that the conservative bishops, who want to suppress the theologically problematic practice of having girls serve at Mass, are really closet pederasts should have been left in place so you wouldn't be able to try to weasel around having made such comments.

How about you, and others like you, quit making foul comments.

'nuff said.

You, sirrah, may have the last word, if you like. I shan't waste any more time on you.

[Cousin Eddie]

And you and your children would be (spiritually) poorer for it.

[ninenot]

Fr. McLucas may be insecure--your psychoanalysis of him is interesting---but he's right. SO happens BE knows McL; and although like you BE is NOT a shrink--perhaps he has an observation.

[ninenot]

and laymen will play an increasingly larger role in the Church

...for about 10 years or so. Then the crisis will be over and the Church will return to an authentic understanding of manhood, priesthood, and femininity.

But thanks for your invitation to leave and go to the Old Rite.

Very considerate of you. You don't like it when someone writes an article which accurately describes the underhanded and dishonest means by which certain changes have been effected, eh?

[ninenot]

This "proposal" is dead on arrival

You are entitled to any benighted opinion you wish to hold.

BTW, I wish you'd stop slandering the Curia for "trial-ballooning" this document. Reuters reports that the document was leaked by the PoofterLiturgyWonks to stir up opposition from the dedicated modernists.

And judging from your reaction, the Poofters got what they wanted, Deacon.

[ninenot]

It's fun to watch you demolish trolls who, at one point in their lives, were inside a Catholic church.

[ninenot]

Altar girls and the use of fleets of EEM's are abuses, they were begun in defiance of authority, and they should be smacked down, hard, Deacon. Communion in the hand, similarly, was begun as an act of defiance.

Defiance just sort of makes you feel good, ain'a? (Did I tell you that I, too, am NOT a shrink?)

[ninenot]

Neat observation.

[ninenot]

And I'm sorry for those whose analysis of their silly analysis is even sillier

And to you, like LeCourboisier, buildings are merely machines for "living" in, or for "meeting" in, or whatever, eh?

You need a bit of remedial time studying the nature and purpose of art (of which architecture is a subset.)

[VermiciousKnid]

When I was young, there were no altar girls. Instead, we were all members of the Sodality, and we served the church in many ways.

Lent and Easter were our most active times. We decorated the church, did the Forty Hours devotions, we were part of all the processions (my favorite was Easter, when we got to wear our white dresses and carry all the beautiful lillies), and of course we were responsible for the preparations for and the celebration of the Coronation of the Blessed Mother during Mary's month of May.

It all seemed so simple then: the boys were altar boys and we girls had the Sodality. Both groups had jobs to do, but our jobs were different...just as it is in life.

That being said, I fervently hope this report is true, as the along with altar girls, the Church has made other "innovations" that I find equally irritating.

Regards,

[ninenot]

flutes, drums, and other instruments in the church

You ought to read a bit more deeply on the posts. While you're at it, about 5 years' study regarding the art of music, its purposes, and music fit for worship would be helpful to you.

Just possible that your aunt's insistence on the pipe organ has to do with the VatII's insistence on the same, as the PRIMARY instrument for music accompaniment in the Church.

[ninenot]

I only pointed out that disobedience, at times, leads to change for the good

As you know from your study of moral theology, one CANNOT do evil, even to achieve good.

Women's suffrage came about through the efforts and disobedience of radical feminists.

Democracy is nice. The Church is not a democracy.

You have not shown any connection or proof of how it ruins the fostering of vocations.

Actually, the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that vocations have increased due to "altar girls."

But since you will be unable to prove that contention, let me help you by pointing out that in Dioceses which are manifestly obedient to the Holy See, vocations are rampant.

In Milwaukee, there are few, if any.

[ninenot]

Are you absolutely certain that Lincoln uses EEM's? I am not. Further, I know as a matter of fact that Lincoln does NOT use altargirls.

[ninenot]

Could it be that priests "disobey" or take liberties in certain areas because the particular rule or discipline is not explained, or there are no reasons given for it

Or could it be that priests have no need to research on their own the genesis of liturgical practice?

Many of them have the time--you see them sitting on their butts during Communion while a fleet of EEM's does their job.

[ninenot]

When you inquire of the Lord why He chose no female Apostles, ask Him as well why He did not make the ONLY sinless female in history to be a priest-ette...

[freeangel]

Well, that explains why only the pipe organ should be the only instrument fit for worship. No doubt it was used at the Last Supper and Peter passed the word along.