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A Magic Bullet for the Anti-Schwarzenegger Camp (Option B for McClintock Supporters)
My own thoughts...
| 09/22/2003
| DoughtyOne
Posted on 09/22/2003 11:55:34 AM PDT by DoughtyOne
For about a month now, there has been a tit for tat disagreement here about who to vote for in the 2003 Recall Election. A number of people have supported Tom McClintock's candidacy faithfully here. Just about everyone else stated they would vote for Tom if he was viable, but would vote for Schwarzenegger if Tom couldn't get his numbers up.
This has led to some heated debates, even among friends here. Even if Tom was losing the battle, they thought loyalty to him and his policies trumped everything else. Look, I don't necessarily frown upon that, except where it may facilitate the likes of Cruz Bustamante being elected instead of Tom's opponent.
Even here a number of the McClintock supporters have disagreed. Over the last month there have been literally hundreds if not thousands of anti-Schwarzenegger posts. If the same article could be found from different sources with the exact same wording, the McClintock camp made sure every one of them were posted here at least once, if not multiple times. Do a search for anti-Schwarzenegger articles. Then do a search for anti-Bustamante articles. Then do a search for anti-McClintock articles. It will become clear who has had an agenda to drive here.
The argument that Cruz Bustamante might be the beneficiary of the McClintock camps tactics has been dismissed by them. It is said constantly here that Schwarzenegger would make a worse governor than Bustamante. One person told me that Bustamante wasn't really all that bad. Okay... I didn't and still don't agree with this, but if this is truly how McClintock supporters see this, there is something they can do about it.
Look, there's one option out there that is perfectly suited for the McClintock supporters. Tom is now at 14% in the polls. If his supporters are able to understand that a little over 1/8th of the vote won't win it, then they may want to consider this. If they vote "No" on the recall, then "Bustamante", they'll achieve the victory of blocking Arnold Schwarzenegger from becoming California's next governor. After all, that seems to be the worst case scenario for them.
I suppose folks will think of this as a slam, but I don't think it should be viewed that way. If they truly think Schwarzenegger is the worst possible candidate among the three, this is a sure-fire way to make sure he doesn't get in. Even a few percentage points thrown to Cruz by Tom's people should lock Arnold out. And that's the main goal here, let's be honest.
Evidently it is something worthy of consideration for McClintock folks. Why leave this to chance by voting for Tom and risk Schwarzenegger getting in anyway. Put your vote where your mouths have been. Just let your conviction be your guide and make sure Arnold Schwarzenegger doesn't get in. Vote "No" and "Bustamante".
By your actions, you folks seem to agree this is conservatism's best choice this time around. If you do, then go for it. Don't leave California's future to fate.
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To: DoughtyOne
Hey D1:
As this thread rapidly approaches a total meltdown, I would like to suggest that we stand back from the Arnold / Tom saga, and do more research on Cruz and Davis (with graphics for them instead of the cross-fire graphics we have now...).
Just a thought...
DD
41
posted on
09/22/2003 12:51:18 PM PDT
by
DiamondDon1
(Official Tombot, Member VRWC)
To: Rabid Republican
I considered doing this, but realized it would only turn into a downward spiraling road to infighting. What's the point of doing that vs this?
This was a valid observation of a real issue that has presented itself on the forum. Even some of the more enlightened people on the forum have advanced this idea. I'm tired of ignoring it.
To: DoughtyOne
If California conservatives could find a persuasive, dynamic, highly accomplished, focused (on the opposition), truly likable, ethical, adaptable candidate, could he win in California?
From what many of us have observed in these brief 6 weeks or so, McClintock does not fit this description. Simon actually was better suited and ran a more admirable campaign.
I just wonder where the other 66% of the votes will come from to elect a conservative, if only 34% of the state is registered Republican. And not all of those are conservatives, anyway. Some are what so many here would quickly label RINO's.
I would see Arnold as you do, the better of the two major candidates. It has taken me a while to get past my image of him as a movie star. Going form Terminator to governor in a couple of months is a real leap for many to take. But he does have good ideas and he is a leader and he most likely will find ways to begin to resolve the problems. He has surrounded himself with a variety of consultants, much the way Pres. Bush has. And they are from the entire philosophical spectrum, as is proabably needed in California.
43
posted on
09/22/2003 12:54:59 PM PDT
by
BonnieJ
To: DiamondDon1
Any time the McClintock camp wanted to call a truce, they could have. All they had to do was stop trashing Schwarzenegger. I begged them to knock it off. What could I do? What can you do? This is the only way they know of to support Tom, and even though it hasn't gained them one vote, the same tactics continue.
I would gladly have spent the last month developing positive stuff for Tom and negative stuff for Cruz. Yeah, you go to the McClintock camp and hand them this proposal. When you draw back a bloody stump I'll be here to help.
To: DoughtyOne
Simon came withing striking distance of defeating Davis because Democrats were not motivated to go to the polls. They hated Davis, that is obvious from his approval rating. They are motivated this time as they usually are. I don't think a true conservative will have that high of a percentage again...do you?
45
posted on
09/22/2003 1:00:58 PM PDT
by
BonnieJ
To: Rabid Republican
46
posted on
09/22/2003 1:03:52 PM PDT
by
Tamzee
("Big government sounds too much like sluggish socialism."......Arnold Schwarzenegger)
To: Rabid Republican
Poll
|
Schwarzenegger
|
Bustamante
|
McClintock
|
Ueberroth
|
Huffington
|
RCP Average
|
28.8%
|
29.3%
|
15.3%
|
4.8%
|
2.8%
|
|
26%
|
28%
|
14%
|
-%
|
2%
|
|
25%
|
30%
|
18%
|
8%
|
3%
|
|
39%
|
29%
|
16%
|
6%
|
3%
|
|
25%
|
30%
|
13%
|
5%
|
3%
|
|
40%
|
28%
|
8%
|
7%
|
1%
|
|
28%
|
33%
|
12%
|
10%
|
3%
|
|
45%
|
29%
|
11%
|
6%
|
3%
|
|
22%
|
35%
|
12%
|
7%
|
3%
|
|
31%
|
25%
|
17%
|
8%
|
3%
|
|
23%
|
18%
|
5%
|
4%
|
3%
|
|
22%
|
25%
|
9%
|
5%
|
4%
|
|
42%
|
22%
|
13%
|
7%
|
7%
|
|
25%
|
15%
|
9%
|
4%
|
4%
|
*Republican Pollster, Simon votes reallocated to voters' second choice. |
RCP
47
posted on
09/22/2003 1:04:12 PM PDT
by
deport
(Man with one clock knows the time..... man with two clocks doesn't know the time)
To: DoughtyOne; NittanyLion
. . . you folks seem to agree this is conservatism's best choice this time around.McClintock is by far conservatism's best choice this time around. Thus McClintock gets the vote.
It's pretty straightforward, really. No need to play Machiavellian games of misdirection. That's your M.O., not mine.
48
posted on
09/22/2003 1:06:09 PM PDT
by
Kevin Curry
(The lust for power is not rooted in strength, but in weakness)
To: DoughtyOne
I'm not responsible for the McClintock "camp" so there may have been posters that did that. However, it doesn't make it right if they compared it to another poll. If the discussion was based on just the LA Times results - then it was fair game - but most of us who live here in So. Cal know that the LA Times isn't the best source of info under any circumstance. Posters from out of state probably wouldn't realize that.
I think deport is going to try to post the table and from there you can get the actual wording. The PPIC is a 37 page pdf document - the LA Times was about 16 pages or so.
I believe the website is www.realclearpolitics.com.
To: deport
Thank you deport - you are a wonder and I bet you have that table memorized!
To: BonnieJ
Tom McClintock's platform is almost identical to what I'd like to see in a candidate. Bill Simon was more to the left of McClintock, than in full agreement.
If McClintock were the only candidate now, the left would savage him on his immigration and other conservative views. Completely ignored by the TomBot camp is that the Democrat adds out here are completely ignoring the republican candidates.
Schwarzenegger is the only person who goes out and talks about changing the direction of the state. Tom talks about himself. Arnold talks about change. Davis talks about No on recall. Bustamante talks about himself. Then there are No on the recall adds as well. The only person talking about change, is Arnold.
The republican infighting reminds me of this.
A man and girlfriend go out for an evening walk. After they've gone about two blocks, another suitor walks up and tries to horn in on the man the woman was with.
Taking offense this man that started the walk with the woman starts a fight with the new suitor. While they roll on the ground, a third man comes up and rapes the woman. The two man are too damned stupid to realize it's more important to defend the woman than to win the fight they are involved in.
This is California in a nutshell, but I'd like to mitigate one thing here. Schwarzenegger might be the guy who tried to horn in on the other guy's date, but at least he's the one that's trying to break free to defend the woman.
To: Tamsey
I'm afraid to look - are they nice ones?
To: DoughtyOne
DoughtyOne, some of these McClinton goofballs arent clever enough to know that you are being sarcastic. They may think this is a great idea. Many of them are already talking about voting No on the Recall to make sure that Arnold doesnt win. They've already given up on blinky. Somehow they think the people of California will raise up in armed revolution if they are forced to deal with another three years of Davis.
53
posted on
09/22/2003 1:12:13 PM PDT
by
Dave S
To: NathanR
"Those recomendations make more sense than voting both for the recall and Tom. (Especially when knowing that Tom can't win.) That would be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. "
---
Tom can't win, but Arnold CAN, even with McC in the race. But I surely hate to see Arnold beat Bustamante, but it's meaningless, because Davis doesn't get recalled.
To: Rabid Republican
Let's say your method is the best method to figure out where McClintock is. A 9% rise in five weeks is okay. There are two weeks left. Even if Tom rises another 4.5%, what is that going to accomplish? 19% is not going to take this election away from Bustamante is it.
To: Rabid Republican
Peace offering to the McClintock Camp :-)
56
posted on
09/22/2003 1:15:10 PM PDT
by
Tamzee
("Big government sounds too much like sluggish socialism."......Arnold Schwarzenegger)
To: Rabid Republican
I thought they were nice myself.... he just seems uncomfortable in front of a camera, like most of us.
When the camera catches him unaware, he looks great :-)
57
posted on
09/22/2003 1:17:10 PM PDT
by
Tamzee
("Big government sounds too much like sluggish socialism."......Arnold Schwarzenegger)
To: DoughtyOne
I remain puzzled why some people see electing Schwarzenegger as a goal unto itself. What exactly does a California conservative expect to get out of that proposition? I may have missed something, but he doesn't seem to be promising to promote a conservative agenda, or even to oppose a liberal one.
But that "R" behind his name will allow the Democrats to play the inevitable further problems in the state on the Republican Party. To me that seems like tossing away the best issue for the next general election awfully lightly.
Arnold's conservative support ought to fit in some way with the enactment of at least some part of the conservative agenda. While I see a lot of assumptions and hopes, I'm not seeing much substance addressing this.
To: Tamsey; DoughtyOne
Why in the world did this thread get sent to the backroom?
To: DoughtyOne
If they vote "No" on the recall, then "Bustamante", they'll achieve the victory of blocking Arnold Schwarzenegger from becoming California's next governor. After all, that seems to be the worst case scenario for them.Could you cite the thread or FReeper quote that made you think this was the "worst-case scenario" for McClintock supporters here?
.
.
.
I didn't think so... but thanks for being so disingenuous anyway.
60
posted on
09/22/2003 1:20:45 PM PDT
by
Teacher317
(just being straight here)
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