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To: syriacus
I know the pro-diers ignore all logic. But I wish they could see that, if they choose to see her body as an empty shell, then they should agree she is not suffering while being kept alive.

Compelling argument, but there is a plausible counter which should be dealt with: in some religions, it is believed that the soul is stuck in the body until the body is cremated or otherwise destroyed (the exact requirements vary by religion). In accordance with such a belief, someone can be quite thoroughly biologically dead, and therefore quite certainly not biologically suffering, and yet their soul would be languishing on earth until such time as their body is cremated.

I have no reason to believe that either Mr. or Mrs. Schiavo held such a belief, but such a belief would seem to significantly undermine the argument you gave.

596 posted on 09/25/2003 9:35:16 PM PDT by supercat (Why is it that the more "gun safety" laws are passed, the less safe my guns seem?)
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To: supercat
A couple of weeks ago, Terri was hospitalized and extremely ill. So ill, in fact, that we could have lost her. I think if she truly wanted to die (as her "husband" is fond of saying), she had the opportunity to do so then. She didn't.

Any Dr or nurse would agree that the mind has a lot to do with how the body heals. A patient almost has to "want to heal" if they are going to heal. With everything that was physically wrong with Terri then, she should have died. She didn't. To my romantic and sentimental heart, that says she has a pretty strong will to live and that her soul isn't really stuck. She just doesn't seem to be ready to let go of her physical life.

It is important to find the comparison between this event and the events leading up to the death of Robert Wendland. His case, also very visible, gained tremendous momentum and he "suddenly" died of pneumonia before its outcome. This is an "exit protocol" and it's neither the first nor the last time it will happen. It is my firm belief that this was happening with Terri as well.

I am of the belief that it was what made the Governor take action as well. His letter to Judge Greer mentioned it.

The point you make is an interesting one and I've always found idealogy a fascinating subject. But, I think that on any level, it remains rather clear that Terri's "in there" and has no intention of leaving any time soon.

-P-
601 posted on 09/26/2003 3:24:00 AM PDT by phenn (http://www.terrisfight.org)
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To: supercat
Compelling argument, but there is a plausible counter which should be dealt with: in some religions, it is believed that the soul is stuck in the body until the body is cremated or otherwise destroyed (the exact requirements vary by religion).

And the exact beliefs vary by religion.

You are saying we should consider many, greatly varying theologies. That is a daunting task.

If you care to tell me the beliefs of the individual theologies about souls , I'd be willing to see what I can learn about them.

Since those religions disagree with one another, a "one size" answer to their concerns will not fit them all.

If you want a more general answer, right now, I'd say: Why the hurry to release the soul? Does it get reused right away? Does it attain bliss right away? Does "right away" even matter in the scheme of eternity?

Does "languishment" hurt the indestructible soul somehow?

Is a languishing soul trapped in time? Does that bother it? Or is the soul always part of the eternal sphere (wheel) , no matter where it is at?

I only brought up souls because right-to-diers are (pretend to be?) so concerned about souls.

Right-to-diers who make the news, like Nancy Cruzan's father and George Felos, talk about releasing the person/soul from their body.

It would likely be kinder to the patients if medical experts who are concerned with severely disabled patients, dealt with them primarily as physical persons and tried to help them in anyway they could and, perhaps, looked to the future with hope for a recovery.

It seems like some of them use the excuse of the soul to kill the body.

One of the underlying arguments of the right-to-diers seems to be

We can't make a "mistake" when we kill someone."

"It's all right if we kill patients. It's all right if we err in killing patients. The patients' souls will "live on" or "be reincarnated" anyway....We can't make a mistake in killing them.


We've had fault-free divorce.
We've had fault-free auto-insurance
Now we have fault-free medical killing.

603 posted on 09/26/2003 5:51:46 AM PDT by syriacus (Terri can feel --- and she'd like a meal.)
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To: supercat
In accordance with such a belief, someone can be quite thoroughly biologically dead,

Most people seem to agree that Terri is not biologically dead. If she were already dead, Felos and Schiavo would not be "prescribing" starvation to kill her. You don't need to starve a dead body.

True she requires liquid nourishment, but that nourishment is similar to what many folks take as a supplement. My daughter has taken it as a supplement. My mother takes it as a supplement.

Since people in the same condition as Terri are still alive, they probably do not need to have their souls released. Their souls probably belong in their bodies.

606 posted on 09/26/2003 6:31:25 AM PDT by syriacus (Terri can feel --- and she'd like a meal.)
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