Two incomes, more debt?

Christian Science Monitor ^ | September 17, 2003 | Marilyn Gardner

[chris1]

Republicans suck! They let us down at every opportunity. Illegals, spending, judges, taxes, prescription drugs. At least the Demos are honest about what they are - socialists.

[VermiciousKnid]

Well, our family actually does make it on one income (but it ain't easy). My husband has a good job and makes about $100K/yr.

Sounds like a lot of money, but again...on Long Island it's just enough to get by with a modicum of comfort.

I have not taken a job myself, because quite frankly, it isn't worth it. The cost of hiring a babysitter for the kids every day after school would chew up way too much of that second salary, and of course, Uncle Sam would come calling for even more tax money.

Besides...I did 15 years in the workforce before I had the kids. I don't WANT to go back to work. I like being Mom, and I am willing to sacrifice some creature comforts in order to stay that way. I do wish, however, that the government didn't take half our income. Unfortunately, I don't see the tax situation in NY changing in my lifetime, so...as soon as hubby can retire, we are OUT OF HERE for good.

[chris1]

Escape from New York!!!!!

[holdmuhbeer]

...and think i should live in at least 200 square feet

arrghh, i meant 2000 square feet. LOL

[Prolifeconservative]

This is also worth noting:

Nowadays folks have increased utility expenses. Such as cell phones, cable television, ISP's, second land lines, monthly home security monitoring, filtered water, on and on it goes.

Yes, it could be argued that these are all luxury items. But sadly most people who cannot afford these things go and get them anyway lest they be left behind by the technology boom. There is a herd mentality to all these stupid gadgets that only increases a family's monthly obligation. For instance, what man wants to be humiliated at work when the guys are talking about the big game on ESPN and he says, "we don't have cable, I didn't see it."

And, doesn't everyone have a cell phone these days. Most people did without not too many years ago, but now everyone needs one. WHY?

Not too long ago most people drank the water that came from their taps. Not anymore, they buy filtered/spring water. WHY!? - noone was keeling over from tap water.

All this technology gidgetry is taxing the common man. It is only my opinion that one day, I don't know when, the average Joe is going to wake up and say enough is enough and there will be a trend in America where people will turn their backs on this insanity and go back to a simpler life, a day when a man works to pay a mortgage, electric bill, and a phone. I don't expect it to be a large scale trend, but there will be some type of smaller scale rejection of this type of lifestyle. It's just getting insane.

For those in financial trouble I say to you, "add up every luxury utility expense (which is taxed and taxed and taxed)and see what you are doing to your bottom line.

Furthermore, forget about society's insanity that says you have to save for your child's college education. That's the biggest peice of howwash that's being sold to America today!!!!! What, we as parents are supposed slave to finance our kid's education so they can go out and earn a huge dollar when they get out of school and then they can carry on their lives with unsaddled college debt. I'm sick and tired of these pinhead financial experts telling America we need to save for our kid's college expenses and start today, don't wait, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah! My kids will get "room and board" help only, that is they can live at my house as long as they are a full-time student. Beyond that, they will find a way to be educated less my financial backing. Do college kids actually work anymore to put themselves through school?

Wow, this is turning into a full-fledge rant!!!

Debt robs you of peace of mind! Having no nest egg kills any chance at tanquility for most! And JOY can be found in most families where both parents know if they lose both their jobs today they can coast and get by for a specified time because they were prudent and saved, and haven't burndened themselves with enormous monthly expenses. So what is "peace of mind" worth? Making choices today can begin to restore "the peace that was meant to be."

Cable/Filtered Water/college savings/ISP/ETC or peace of mind?

Like everthing - It's a choice.

[newgeezer]

(from the article) This year, more children are going through their parents' bankruptcies than their parents' divorces.

Incredible. I can't think of an acquaintance who's declared bankruptcy. Maybe it's hard to know without reading the announcements in the newspaper.

[John O]

And this article provides numerous illustrations of the number one rule of financial stability: don't have children before you can afford them. What are people thinking of, having a baby while they've got $30,000 in credit card debt, or before they've paid off their own student loans? Get completely out of debt except for a reasonable mortgage, pay cash for a good used car, and THEN start bringing children into the world.

Disagree. Children are not the problem here. If you wait until you can afford them you'll never have them. And we need to be reproducing at a far higher level than we are.

The problem is people getting themselves into 30K of CC debt in the first place. If you don't have the cash, don't buy it.

Cars are another big issue with me. People insist that they have to have a new car every three years or so. If they'd just wait three years and buy that car (when it's 4 model years old) they'll save around 40-50% of the cost. Then drive it for 10-12 years and do it again. The cost savings is incredible.

Likewise if you want a big house, buy a big fixer-upper.

We bought our 2200 sq ft home for 24K back in 1987. After much work (and about 50-60K of improvements) it's worth well over 100K now but my housing payment is still less than the rent I paid previously.

And lastly, live in a cheaper area. My cost of living is next to nothing compared to the big cities. I pay about $575 a year in property taxes (although they will increase this year)

We are a one-income family with children and we are doing quite nicely. Of course we eat out far too often but we're working on that.

[chris1]

College today is the saddest and cruelest hoax on the middle class. I know many many many plumbers painters dry wall fence mechanic's etc who are making far more than college grads and have no debt or school loans. College is a farce today because these kids come out learning and knowing nothing helpful in terms of employment. It is another transfer of wealth to the elites.

[dfwgator]

And, doesn't everyone have a cell phone these days. Most people did without not too many years ago, but now everyone needs one. WHY?

I hate cell phones and I refuse to use one unless it's an emergency. I don't like talking on the phone when I'm home, much less when I am out.

[ladtx]

Taxes...

You mean these?

Building Permit Tax
Capital Gains Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Court Fines (indirect taxes)
Dog License Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel permit tax
Gasoline Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax Interest expense (tax on the money)
Inventory tax IRS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax)
IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Local Income Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Septic Permit Tax
Service Charge Taxes
Social Security Tax
Road Usage Taxes (Truckers)
Sales Taxes
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Road Toll Booth Taxes
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone federal excise tax
Telephone federal universal service fee tax
Telephone federal, state and local surcharge taxes
Telephone minimum usage surcharge tax
Telephone recurring and non-recurring charges tax
Telephone state and local tax
Telephone usage charge tax
Toll Bridge Taxes
Toll Tunnel Taxes
Traffic Fines (indirect taxation)
Trailer registration tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax

[madison10]

TAXES! Excellent point. What's it up to, 50%? BIG government needs to cut back.

Seems about right, especially when looking at my husband's check. It gets ZAPPED big-time.

[netmilsmom]

I am sooo blessed to have been given that gift. I will not be able to give it to my children (free and clear that is). I took care of very young sick parents (Daddy died at 52 of cancer and Mom pined away for him until 61), while my sisters had families they could not afford. My parents actually bought a duplex for them (and my dad was a salesman who never earned more than 24,000 a year, but was frugal) on the thought that they would save money to get a house of their own, splitting the investment for a down payment. Both families while paying 215.00 a month, chose to live the high life and in the end the house was sold at a loss. Neither sister could understand why I got my parent's house.
One is now a lesbian and the other just survived bankruptcy with her second husband.
Is this too much information?

[Tax-chick]

arrghh, i meant 2000 square feet. LOL

Ah, your parents are behind the times ... the Realtors and builder's associations say you should have 1000 sqft per person, so you need 4,000, and I need 9,000. And then they wonder why people can't make their payments!

Our new house has 2,400 ft (for 9 of us, as of 2/1/04); the identical house next door is owned by a young, childless, 2-income couple (and their new rottweilers, which are toast if they tunnel under our fence or bark at night ...)

Almost everyone in our apartment building is building a new house - the Japanese are permanent renters, maybe they know something the rest don't? Most families are getting houses 300K and up, with much smaller families than ours. People's expectations have just grown unrealistically ... and then academics give them someone else to blame (lenders) when they can't pay their bills.

[GovernmentShrinker]

For most families, children ARE the problem. And if they're the sort of people who'll never have them because they think they can't afford them, they're probably better off not having children. If having children and raising them yourself (not dumping them in daycare and government schools, while both parents work to pay off their debts) isn't a bigger priority than ever-increasing material wealth and comfort, don't have them. For people who really make having and raising children the priority, they'll be able to finish their educations, get out of debt, and make the down payment on a modest home within a few years, and then skip all the unnecessary stuff and easily afford to have children.

[madison10]

We could afford it at the time but the property taxes and insurance rates are killing us.

Car insurance is outrageous. It may actually pay my husband and I for me to quit my job and sell the second car I need to get to that second job.

Did not realize until recently that the cost of living in Michigan is HIGH compared to outlying areas of Ohio. Friends who have moved here have faced mega sticker shock.

[Tax-chick]

What you said!

[newgeezer]

One word she missed... Taxes...

Yes, government is way, way too big and overstepping its bounds by orders of magnitude. Taxes are obscenely high by any measure of Constitutional justification.

But, blaming bankruptcy on taxes is something like blaming obesity on food, blaming 9/11 on the airlines, or blaming lung cancer on Philip Morris.

Bankruptcy is caused by living too close to the edge, poor planning, unpreparedness and/or "unbridled enthusiasm."

[bigeasy_70118]

Incredible. I can't think of an acquaintance who's declared bankruptcy. Maybe it's hard to know without reading the announcements in the newspaper.

I am a consumer bankruptcy attorney, so I know about 400 people that have filed bankruptcy. I assure you, one of your acquiantances has filed at some point in their life. It's not something that needs to be broadcast.

Several years ago, I went to a Mardi Gras ball. Several prominent people in the community were there and I had done a bankruptcy for a couple of them. Upon my entrance, they all put their masks on and pretended they didn't recognize me! Obviously I played along.

[fortaydoos]

or like an Administration spending half a TRILLION bucks more than it collects in taxes in one year, on the assumption that magical growth will return one day, some day, but never today, to balance the budget?