9/11 AIR OUTRAGE

I'm really torn on this.

While my respect for the firefighters knows no bounds, I can remember reports at the time that they, and all of te other workers at Ground Zero were determined to do their work, regardless of the dangers involved.

Think about this subject for a minute. The necessary consequence of the political opportunism of Senator Hillary! Clinton is this: Should the EPA and the federal government told the brave policemen and firemen of New York to stay away from Ground Zero and cease efforts to find their trapped colleagues who were still alive, and the bodies of their colleagues who were killed?

Is that what this b*tch of a Senator is saying? No wonder the firemen and policemen booed her, the one time they got the chance to do that.

Congressman Billybob

Latest column, "Paying the Wrong Piper," discussion thread on FR. Article is also on ChronWatch.

I got a bad feeling,too.I am reminded of the real men don't wear motorcycle helmets syndrome.

Am I the only one who is tired of the whining of the firefighters? This is a little like lifetime smokers whining that they didn't know that there was danger. Of course there was danger and I'm sure that there is some permanent damage and they should be compensated. Now, is it necessary to trash people in the process? This is more of the liberal mental process that the government has to keep us from all harm.

pure politics.

the CDC study is here: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm51SPa2.htm

The problem was that this was a huge disaster, and the proper maskes were not available at first for many who were searching in the early days after 911...by day 3-7 half the rescuers had proper masks, but at first not everyone had a mask, nor were they worried about it. These guys were looking for their friends and relatives...

There was a huge casualty rate, both immediately and after 911 in both firefighters and rescuers...http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm51SPa1.htm

"At the time of the attacks, 11,336 firefighters and 2,908 EMS workers were employed by FDNY. During the collapse, 343 FDNY rescue workers died (341 firefighters and two paramedics). During the first 24 hours, 240 FDNY rescue workers (158 firefighters and 82 EMS workers) sought emergency medical treatment (Table). Most (63%) were for eye irritation, respiratory tract irritation and exposure (any combination of mild exhaustion, dehydration, and eye and respiratory tract irritation) not requiring hospital admission. Of 28 FDNY rescue workers who required hospitalization, 24 had traumatic injuries including 17 with fractures, four with back trauma, two with knee meniscus tears, and one with facial burns (Table). One firefighter suffered a cervical spine fracture requiring surgery for stabilization and recovered without neurologic sequelae. Three FDNY rescue workers required hospital admission for life-threatening inhalation injuries. Eight FDNY rescue workers were evaluated for chest pain, and one EMS worker was admitted for suspected myocardial infarction; after evaluation, none was found to have coronary artery disease.

Traumatic Injuries During the 3 Months After the Attacks (September 11--December 10, 2001)
Data for the first month following the attacks include those injuries occurring in the first 24 hours that resulted in medical leave. Compared with monthly mean incidence rates for the 9 months before the attacks, the incidence of crush injuries, lacerations, and fractures during the month after the attacks increased by 200% (from three to nine), 35% (from 37 to 50), and 29% (from 21 to 27), respectively, but then returned to levels similar to those observed before the attacks. Compared with the 9 months before the WTC attacks, monthly mean incidence decreased for contusions (from 86 to 67 [29%]), sprains and strains (from 364 to 200 [41%]), other orthopedic injuries (from 96 to 61 [35%]), and burns (from 43 to three [95%]). As of August 28, 2002, a total of 90 FDNY rescue workers were on medical leave or light duty assignments because of orthopedic injuries reported during the 3 months of activity at the WTC site.

Respiratory Illnesses During the 11 Months After the Attacks (September 11, 2001--August 22, 2002)
During the 48 hours after the attacks, approximately 90% of 10,116 FDNY rescue workers evaluated at the WTC site reported an acute cough often accompanied by nasal congestion, chest tightness, or chest burning; only three FDNY rescue workers required hospitalization. Compared with numbers of service-connected, respiratory medical leave incidents (n=393) during the 11 months preceding the attacks, the number of respiratory medical leave incidents (n=1,876) increased five-fold during the 11 months after the attacks. During February 2002, the incidence of new respiratory illness requiring either medical leave or light duty began to decrease and during May 2002 began to approach pre-attack incidence.

Respiratory illness with chest radiograph abnormalities: Two weeks after the attacks, one FDNY firefighter was admitted with acute eosinophilic pneumonia after repeated exposure to WTC dust (1). The firefighter fully recovered after a short course of corticosteroid treatment. In the 3 months after the attacks, 13 FDNY firefighters were treated for pneumonia (lobar consolidation with leukocytosis) with complete resolution following antibiotic therapy. This incidence was similar to that observed for the same period 1 year earlier. As of August 28, 2002, all 14 firefighters are asymptomatic and have returned to full duties.

WTC-related cough: During the 6 months after the attacks, 332 firefighters and one EMS worker had WTC-related cough severe enough to require >4 consecutive weeks of medical leave (2). Despite treatment of upper and lower aero-digestive tract irritation (i.e., sinusitis, gastroesophageal acid reflux, and/or asthma), 173 (52%) of 333 have shown only partial improvement of WTC-related cough and remain either on medical leave or light duty or are pending a disability retirement evaluation.

As of August 28, 2002, a total of 358 firefighters and five EMS workers remained on medical leave or light duty assignment because of respiratory illness that occurred after WTC exposure. On the basis of applications for respiratory disability retirement benefits during the preceding 6 months, an estimated 500 FDNY firefighters (4% of the 11,336 total FDNY firefighter workforce) might eventually qualify for disability retirement because of persistent respiratory conditions. "

however, this "blaming" the EPA is merely presidential election politics...Hillary is a lying demagogue...

--I'm tired too of the media preoccupation with a little smoke and dust. I have spent somewhere around 23000 hours underground ,lots of it above ten thousand feet altitude, breathing a certain amount of rock dust and explosive smoke and its by-products. Last time I bothered to have a lung x-ray the doctor told me that I have lungs like a fourteen year old. The amount of dust and smoke exposure anybody got in 9-11 and the aftermath is of no consequence whatsoever--

Last night on CNN (..I know,but it was late) they ran the 9/11 special. Right at the start RUDY was telling, make that YELLING at the rescue workers: "PUT ON YOUR MASKS"!

This entire subject is just another hit piece from the cLINTOON TEAM!

Tower lung? The hITLERY B!tc# should worry more about CROTCH ROT!

Search and Rescue: A Firefighter's Ambivalent Take
Zac Unger
Posted Sunday, September 16, 2001, at 6:01 AM PT

Sitting in the firehouse on Tuesday, watching the towers fall, we were all shaken by how powerless we felt. I needed desperately to go to work, and within an hour I got a phone call summoning me to Oakland's Urban Search and Rescue cache. USAR is a nationwide program overseen by FEMA and run by local fire departments. There are 28 teams around the country--27 now, as New York's team has been gutted. The goal of each USAR team is to be a completely self-sustainable rescue unit with special expertise in dealing with technical rescues, such as the ones required by earthquakes and building collapses. Within eight hours of call-up, each team is capable of bringing 62 rescuers and 60,000 pounds of gear to the nearest Air Force base, where it is all loaded onto immense transport planes and delivered to ground zero. Once onsite, the team has enough food, water, shelter, and power to work for 72 hours unsupported by any external infrastructure. Our team consists of heavy-rescue experts, dogs and their handlers, doctors, structural engineers, and technical search specialists. My position on the team is that of logistics specialist, which means that I am responsible for the exhausting details of moving and running our small city.

At the moment, there are eight USAR teams on the ground in New York and four more at the Pentagon. Originally it seemed that Oakland's team might be wheels-up in a military C-5 airplane within the day, but the powers-that-be at FEMA have decided not to send us for a week or more. USAR's most high-profile operation to date has been in Oklahoma City, with teams hard at work for almost three weeks. Rescue experts I've talked to say that the destruction in New York is 120 times larger than the rubble of the Murrah federal building. It now seems likely that every USAR team in the country will be rotated through New York several times over the coming months, and our first turn may not be until the end of September.

After five days of being buried, the chances of emerging alive from a collapsed structure are less than 7 percent. Nonetheless, the president has committed to continuing the rescue effort until every single person is accounted for. Rescue in these sorts of situations is inherently dangerous, and body recovery is no easier. With toxic dust swirling around a constantly shifting pile, my rescue specialists are going to be pushed to their limits.

In an earthquake or a bombing, the search team is the first to go to work. The structural engineers identify possible void spaces and assess the stability of the debris. The handlers follow their dogs' noses, and our technicians thread delicate camera and audio probes deep beneath the concrete in hopes of picking up faint signs of life. After finding a victim, the search team turns the effort over to the rescue team, the grit and muscle of our operation. The rescuers have an array of massive tools at their disposal--roto-hammers, concrete saws, 70-ton capacity lifting bags. In Oklahoma City, USAR members dangled on ropes midway down the concrete and steel skeleton, pressing their jackhammers into the massive widowmaker slab of concrete dangling from steel reinforcement bars and wire.

Even with the experiences of Oklahoma, the Northridge earthquake and dozens of other disasters behind us, the jobs at the Pentagon and the World Trade Center will be infinitely more complex than anything USAR, or anyone else, has ever contemplated. At what remains of the Towers my crew will build a web of pulleys and ropes allowing them to rappel down to the level of the job. We bring heavy pneumatic chisels and saws tipped with flakes of diamond capable of slicing through the tons of concrete. We also use giant rubber lifting bags, some as large as five square feet, which can be slipped into the tiny spaces between slabs of concrete. Amazingly, the rubber is more durable than the rubble and as the bags are slowly inflated they are capable of raising nearly 70 tons. Once one lift is completed, the new opening will be shored up with heavy timbers and the air bag reinserted deeper under the top slab to gain more height. In Oklahoma City, rescue workers were frustrated by miles of cable and wire that emerged after the walls were blown apart and that blocked access to the heavy mounds of debris. We know better now and have stocked hundreds of extra wire cutters to keep the effort from bogging down.

Though I feel guilty even giving voice to this, I am apprehensive about using rescuers for body recovery. The toll has already been so great--Chief Ray Downey, an early force behind the birth of USAR, died alongside his men last Tuesday morning--that the thought of putting any more firemen in harm's way sickens me. While there is still hope for survivors, I think we should throw every resource in the world at the devastation, but at some point reality may need to overcome compassion. I admire the sentiment that we should leave no American behind, but I refuse to leave behind any of my own friends in the service of a symbolic effort.

In the midst of this large-scale devastation, my days since the attack have been consumed by details. As a logistical specialist, preparing for our deployment has been a round-the-clock effort. I am consumed by questions: Is the country (the world?) already stripped bare of concrete-cutting blades? If we're still going to be there in December, where can I buy 1000 pairs of wool socks? Are our body-bags sturdy enough to be lowered by ropes? I recently test-ate a self-heating meal packet, and though I liked the taste, the portions were much too small. I don't want to think about the mutiny I'd face if I passed them out to my rescue guys after a twelve-hour shift on the pile. I'll buy three per person per meal, but I'm worried that doing so might cut into the money I need for acetylene torches and dogfood.

Shipping the cache is a nightmarish jigsaw puzzle involving boxing, palletizing, and tying down 17,000 pieces of equipment. And, state of emergency or not, I'm still responsible for filling out hundreds of shipping declarations and hazardous materials notifications for everything we carry. Helping another Bay Area USAR team get out the door the other night, I spent until 5 a.m. on the tarmac of an Air Force base haggling with a well-intentioned but strict loadmaster about the proper way to pack and label each item in the cache. All around us drab-gray planes were lifting off toward who-knows-what kind of military buildup, and I couldn't help but think that a half-dozen cans of orange spray paint weren't the most dangerous thing being shipped out just then.

Our team is primed and ready. We want nothing more than to go to New York, and when the call from FEMA comes in, as it most certainly will, we'll be out the door in minutes. Long after this has stopped being a fresh wound, USAR teams will still be chipping away at the pile, extricating the dead until nothing remains but concrete and steel. Until then, there is nothing to do but go back to the firehouse and try to do our job as if nothing had changed. Before Tuesday, I would jump up eagerly whenever the bell toned, confident that I could handle whatever emergency might come my way. Now though, I get a sick feeling when I pick up a call from dispatch, afraid I'll hear the words "airplane," "Bay Bridge," or "Federal Building."

Firemen die. It's a fact of our lives. But now we know that whole fire houses die too, that an entire department can suffer a mortal blow. I'm burning to go to New York, worried about the risks, but aching to deliver a fallen colleague into the hands of his loved ones. When I see firehouse flags at half-staff, I love my job more than I ever have, but I'm more frightened than I've ever been.

Zac Unger is a firefighter in Oakland, Calif.

First responder unions claiming ignorance of the dangerous situation the fallen WTC towers posed, to include toxic air, is ridiculous. All I can guess is it is political, which would disappoint and surprise me, or based on legal/financial needs to take care of those heroes that run into life threatening situations to save complete strangers.

But for a professional organization that d*mn well knew the risks involved to assert they needed the EPA to tell them what to do is complete BS!

here are two studies on air quality problems in Manhatten:

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5135a1.htm

is about self reported increase of asthma.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5207a3.htm

is a general report of air quality issues from a medical standpoint.

"The problem was that this was a huge disaster, and the proper maskes were not available at first for many who were searching in the early days after 911...by day 3-7 half the rescuers had proper masks..."

WHAT??? Ever mask dispenser on the corner lamp posts were empty??? How dare the EPA be so useless!!

And why did Hillary! wait until NOW to "care for her New Yorkers"? Why didn't she say something at the time? Political opportunist extraordinare.

This is exactly what I said on Tuesday's thread about this... Hitlary expected all of our brothers to turn and run like she did, without trying to dig for survivors? Hell even President Bush, Mayor Guilliani, etc., were all there WITHOUT masks... Hitlary is NO Presidential material. She is a Coward *itch of the first calibur.

I like how they blame the head of the EPA for their problems. Is no one responsible for their own life anymore?

This reminds me a lot of the post-invasion handwringing over the Bagdad museum looting. Soon it'll blow away and be forgotten, but it'll be hyped while it can be hyped.

Nuck Fadler!

"Is no one responsible for their own life anymore?"

Problem is, Whitman didn't come down to ground zero every day to do a 'respirator check'! I mean, after all, they can't be expected to remember such intricate detail every day, can they?

The NYP is talking about spin.
What about theirs?
Egads, I remember everyone saying that the dust was toxic.
What kind of BS are they trying to pull, other than attempting to discredit W any way they can try?

If those union stooges were too dumb to take the advice and wear the respirators and use the washing stations, then it's their OWN lookout. One of the first things I learned in basic first-aid class (and they pounded it into us all the way through EMT recerts) is "in a dangerous situation, don't endanger your own life to chance saving another's life - protect yourself first". And it made sense after, later in life, having to assist in rescuing a victim and her TWO 'rescuers'. We got her fine; 2 guys got hurt saving the two unprepared idiots - thankfully nobody died.

Anyone with any sense could figure that after 100+ stories of building falls on you, you're only just so-much rapidly absorbed liquid. There was a building that collapsed in Bridgeport CT a number of years ago (L'Ambiance) and, some of the guys they pulled out of there: even their TEETH were shattered. The body bags were, literally, full of 'soup' - there was...nothing...solid...left.

Once the NYC people got into the section that hadn't collapsed (base/core and underground) that there were no more places left to EXPECT survivors to be found. All the days-later heroics of working 'round the clock & etc. was stupid. I remember the 'rescuers' (though, recovering body parts isn't exactly 'rescuing') after the first week or so, complaining that they were being limited in their hours and they whined that they wanted to work longer hours (out of nobility/bravery/patriotism/etc.. - I called it 'overtime/stupidity/grandstanding) and you could SEE them on TV not wearing any more gear than boots & turnout coats & helmets. NO MASKS ON MOST OF THEM - never mind respirators: not even cheapie 'home-depot' paper dust masks were being worn. I've spoken to several who worked at the site: they said masks were plentiful to those who wanted them.

I can blame their commanders and chiefs for not ordering them to be properly turned-out for their tasks (then again, it was probably the "hey - I'M 'union'; I can do/get anything I want" mentality on BOTH sides. Stupid management, stupid labor.

Okay: hands-up anyone who thinks it's OK to breathe-in dust even if someone tells you it's 'safe dust'. You're stupid. DUST DOESN'T BELONG IN YOUR LUNGS NO MATTER WHAT KIND OF DUST IT IS. Ask any doctor. ("...four out of five doctors recommend you don't breathe dust - the fifth doctor is a plug-dumb 'union lad'...")

The firemen/workers/rescuers in NYC WERE, for the most part, brave/noble/patriotic and deserve full credit. The unprepared grandstanders that are now getting the results of working stupidly are the ones who will get all the attention by the crooked politicians (yeah, I know I'm being redundant).

At least remember THAT the NEXT time a building goes down (God knows that with all the yeeks still crossing our borders it's just a matter of time until some of 'em try another big project).

My 2¢ worth.

By the way: we had a discussion in work on Thursday about whether Sept.11,2001 was an "atrocious tragedy" (most libs preferred that one) or a "tragic atrocity" (conservatives tended toward this one). IMO: more people have been sentenced for 'war atrocities' than for 'war tragedys'. What do y'all think?