[Mulder]

bang

[2nd_Amendment_Defender]

[Joe Brower]

Personally, I have a DSA SA-58 with the medium contour barrel, no bipod and no carrying handle. I love it, and so does everyone else who I've let shoot it. All metric. Hard to go wrong with a FAL, IMHO. Besides that, perhaps someone else here will have some suggestions.

[demlosers]

Also, is there anyway to modify these rifle types to make the pistol grip into a thumbhole stock so I can legally put a flash hider on it?

In one year, the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban will hopefully become obsolete -- sunset. I believe then you should be able to get a flash suppressor.

[Gringo1]

I think the CETME's are a bit less expensive...but ya can see why in the finish.

[.38sw]

Have you checked out The Falfiles?

My husband has an FN FAL, all properly mutilated with a fixed magazine and muzzle brake, to make it California legal. *sigh*

[nvcdl]

Go to www.falfiles.com - all will be revealed.

You can build your own rifle or buy someone elses kit built gun for $650 or less.

I think ATF decided a few years back that thumbhole stocks had pistol grips but hopefully this issue will be moot after November 2004.

[Ursus arctos horribilis]

Ask here, such is their passion: Black rifles and ugly guns

[11B3]

Just spend a little time going through the Shotgun News - you will find your answers to both questions. There are tons of FN/FAL parts kits, and lots of good receivers out there that enable you to build a good rifle for far less than $650. (Para model costs more.)

If accuracy and dependability are both the top considerations, then you can't build a better one than a para model with a Congo style forend and heavy barrel that is bipod cut. Forget about the thumbhole stock (unless you're in CA) - by using enough US made parts the pistol grip stock is OK. Check out Tapco.com for more specifics, or go to the BATF and read Sec 922. (If you can understand Sec 922, please instruct the rest of us out here.)

[and the horse you rode in on]

I got my first FAL in '62 when Browning imported some. They are marvelous rifles.

I would stick with the metric, because there are far more of them and thus magazines than there are english.

If the assault rifle ban fails to be renewed next year, you can have a flash hider and a pistol grip. In the meantime, ther are thumbhole stocks made that fit. I would rather do without the flashider.

I don't care for the G3. I am still not convinced delayed blowback is an apropriate locking method for a high intensity cartridge. I also don't like what they do to the brass.

[11B3]

For all of the best info on how to build FN/FAL series rifles, here is your source: Arizona Response Systems . They know their FN's as well or better than even DSA.

[AlBondigas]

more info & links here

[UncleJeff]

On the shotgun, for his purposes a Mossberg Model 500 is as good as anything made, and several dollars cheaper than some. If intended for use by his wife get the Youth Model. And tell him to forget about heavy buckshot loads, field-load #6s are ideal for inside-the-house ranges, and are much less likely to blow through a miscreant and two walls and cause collateral damage.

[Republican Extremist]

I have owned sevral FALs, and think they are wonderful rifles. For $650, I would try to find a metric rifle built on an Imbel receiver. ARS is a good place to have one built. Stay away from Hesse and Enterprise receivers, as the quality is spotty, and Imbel is made on Belgian machinery, and is mil-spec.
You may want to spend a little more and get a DSA STG-58 like mine. They use DSA receivers, on new Austrian parts kits. Plan on around a grand for one.
Mine is a DSA DSA STG-58 carbine (16"), with bipod, and Elcan scope.

[wku man]

Back in January I bought an Aussie L1A1, with a US made receiver for $500 plus tax, background check, etc. I got mine at a local store, but Shotgun News used to have them listed for the neighborhood of $400. Many dealers are more than happy to order something from the papers or magazines, and charge you an extra 10-15% to make it worthwhile to them. It works out very well.

I've only shot my L1A1 a few times, but I can tell you it is an absolute joy. The adjustable gas tube is wonderful...you can adjust the amount of gas used for cycling the next round to just the minimum needed, and bleed off the rest. The result is recoil something akin to a 7.62x39, from a full scale 7.62x51. Sweet!

A word on mags...be very careful of the bargain basement used inch pattern mags you may see in Shotgun News or elsewhere. Some of the ones I bought had worn out springs, and by the time I ordered new springs, I'd have been better off just buying brand spankin' new metric pattern mags. But that's the beauty of the L1A1 over the FAL. The inch pattern receiver can take both metric or inch mags.

Good luck on your purchase...I love my little Aussie sweetheart.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

[Travis McGee]

Here's another FAL forum link.

FAL Forum

[ExSoldier]

"I can legally put a flash hider on it?"

Me? I'd rather put a muzzle brake which will hold my recoil and flip down and make my shots more accurate to the volume of fire so I'll have fewer "incoming" to even worry about.

"Are L1-A1 rifles better than STG-58 rifles? Are Heckler & Koch G3 rifles heavier than STG-58 rifles?"

L1A1.....I' a wee bit confuzzled...is that the British "Bullpup" Battle rifle? I have some friends that used to be in the British army (and SAS). When they were soldiering for a living (seems everybody gets older and retires or moves on) they just hated that thing. I dunno why. I do think that the H & K series is a heavy rifle, but a durn good one....well proven in many conflicts.

"Anybody have any recommendations on a good home defense models of 20 gauge shotguns (he would prefer models which have a stock and not just a pistol grip)."

I wouldn't own any shotgun that didn't have some form of stock, even a folding stock and I dang sure wouldn't shoot such without the stock extended! It's just a personal preference, but I'll take a semi-auto over a pump anyday for self defense. I've seen the "short stroke and jam" scenario under competition conditions a lot of times, hate to think of what might happen when lives are on the line.

My Benelli M121 12 guage recoils about the same as a Remington 1100 20 because it's recoil action and "pro-porting" absorbs so much of the felt recoil. It's got an extended tube and rifle sights....Mighty quick. I can rattle off all rounds before the first hull has hit the ground and the hits will be on target at self defense ranges for such a weapon. VERY accurate with slugs, too!

[Atlas Sneezed]

The very best advice I can give for making this decision is to buy and read a copy of "Boston's Gun Bible."

It spends hundreds of pages on all the details, pros, and cons of each alternative, and has other info that makes it a great book.

$20 (at fredsm14stocks.com) is the best money you can spend on this decision.

[Kadric]

There is a minor problem with adding a flash surpressor from a nato standard rifle. All of the flash supressors used on nato rifles since the 50's have had the same outer diameter to inable them to launch NATO standard rifle grenades with out the need of an adapter so you would be adding 2 features that are on the list. The flash surpressor and a grenade launcher, which would still put you one over.

[deltaforce]

Spend the extra dollars and buy a DSA STG 58 or
any 308cal rifel produced buy DSA.I bought a STG 58 carbine.
This is a excelent rifel.Very well made,excelent quality.
To view DSA product line go to dsarns.com you will not
be disapointed.