Section V. of Post #73, "REWRITING ORIGINAL DOCUMENTS"
Your lame response shows that you didn't even bother to read the post.
Posted on 09/08/2003 8:40:30 AM PDT by US admirer
Section V. of Post #73, "REWRITING ORIGINAL DOCUMENTS"
Your lame response shows that you didn't even bother to read the post.
Burg, you boob, listen up
I'm an authentic american goy truck driver. You have been, and are, a light to the nations. You're a major means which God uses to bless the rest of us, whether through our Jewish doctor, or our Jewish Messiah, or the ethics and inspiration of our Jewish Scriptures. The state of Israel, too is a blessing. A moral rebuke to the brutal tribal chieftans of the Middle East, a people struggling, however imperfectly to establish justice in a morally savage land. And an inspiration highlighting the creativity that dwells in all of us. You can't help yourself, it's your fate.
The problem for the Israelis, is that the Arabs want what you have, they want your very life. So far, they have, as a whole, shown very little interest in peace, justice or neighborliness. You're old, I guess you're allowed to be tired. But you're wrong to discourage the young in this way. Point to the ideals of Zionism, of the ethics that flow from the God of the Jews, but please stop this "end of Israel" crap
. Thank you,
---your estranged friend, Phil
What the heck is this comment about? My (German) family is from Tilsit, East Prussia. After 1945, the Germans were kicked out (some escaped west, most disappeared into Siberia). The cities were emptied, the street names changed, the property records destroyed. The cities re-populated with Russians. Yes the Germans did wrong, trying to exterminate the Jews (with the help of the Palestinian leadership as sidekicks.) They did evil and chose the (morally) wrong side of history--just like the Arabs. My family has no right in Russian law or German Law or any other Law to go back to what is now the "Kaliningrad Salient.". When your people do evil, you admit it, get purged through repentance and MOVE ON --God forgives.
As to international "rights of refugees," The writer of this quoted comment is delusional.
Wow all this hatred stems from... Palestine?
This statement is a tautology, stupid: of course I can speak about myself better than you, who has never even read my posts.
Next time, take you medication before you start typing: you don't make much sense on the quoted or any previous posts.
You go ahead and phrase your comments about justifying your criticisms of Israel I did not criticise Irsel, at least not on this thread.
with the fact of your jewishness (as if that is relevant) Anyone has a moral right to criticise a policy of any state --- as long as it is a genuine thought. The problem with many of Israle's critics is that they single out Israel for criticism, hence hide their prejudice behind it.
Is it always true that a person can criticize Jews and or Israel because they are jewish? See above: one can cricise the STATE (gove't) of the U.S.A., Canada, France, or Israel, whether Jewish or not.
I think that is what I read from you. I have not addressed this question in my posts.
You might want to reread your own words before you come down so hard on me. Forgive me if I came down hard on you: I certainly do not want to offend you. But it is you who charged onto the thread with ONE-LINE remarks that are hardly clear except for the emotions they expressed.
I suspect I know how you feel. It is tiring after a while to fight anti-Semites, whether Jewish or not. But if you want to be effective you should measure your moves and stay cool: you are more effective against enemies, and you do not kill your own by friendly fire.
And this is what you are doing with me: you have IMPUTED to me something I did not say, got offended, and accused me. Israel is not a pillar in your life then you IMO have not truly considered the matter. And here is the best proof of what I just said: I never said that that "Israel is not a pillar in your life." What I said was that Israel is not a pillar of my identity.
It is not that Israel is unimportant: if your reread my post, you will find that I said it was. It is just there are more pillars to my identity. Nor am I alone: ask yourself, did the Jews have identity before the State of Israel was reborn?
Unfortunately, most of us belong nowadays to a Reform movement, which officially declares Israel to be a pillar of identity. This is natural: when you almost entirely remove G-d from the temple and replace it with "social action" and Israeli bond drives, there is indeed nothing else left. But the Jews for millennia have survived on the Covenant and OBLIGATION to those that came before them, who lived and died as Jews. Did you personally lose anyone in the Holocaust? Most of the American Jews that today beat themselves in the chest as supporters of Israel have not. They lived fairly comfortably in the Land of the Free. And when Holocaust survivors did come in the 1950s, they did not want to hear them out. "Hey, Uncle Moishe, you are in America now. Don't think about those bad things." (You appear to be young and might not know that, go ahead inquire.)
It is noteworthy that you did not even pause on the fact that I did lose a large portion of my family. Given that you could do that, I wonder how you would treat a widow and and orphan in your midst (personally, without a food drive by the Sisterhood at the Temple). Shame on you. What moral right do YOU have to question MY Jewish identity? But that is a consistent with the Reform Temple morality: values and personal conduct are not important. You can sware, you can say blasphemous things. You can be thick-skinned to the suffering of a fellow next to you. But as long as you are part of "social action" and "support Israel" --- you are OK.
If there were no Israel, then there is a good chance that there would be no you.
You appear to have a good heart. You also appear to be young. Before it's too late, please heed my advise: rethink these matters. You repeat the words that you often heard, and they are at best misleading. In this particular case, they make you look foolish: I was born before Israel. Forgive me, but "If there were no Israel, then there is a good chance that there would be no you" is what comfortable Reform Rabbis, who grew up in comfortable suburbia without seeing any persecution whatsoever and who are as shallow as the general American public has bocome tell their congregations. This is nonsense. The Jewish people have survived DESPITE such Jews in their midst, not due to them.
I know that you'll become better with age. You'll learn to fight without barging into the room and waving your sward in all directions indiscriminantly. You'll be more pusuasive. You will excell in your chosen profession. But certain things do not come with age automatically. Before it's too late, resolve to surve your people at a deeper level. Study history. Study the lives of Rabbis. Marry a Jewish woman and raise your children Jewish.
If you do, some day you'll look back and be ashamed of the shallowness of the above-quited statements that you have inherited from not-so-Jewish rabbis.
Shana Tova. May G-d inscribe you in the book of life.
Allow me to explain the baseline rudiments of simple debate to you, here. You appear to be rather muddled as to how this sort of thing works, really.
1.) Multiple contemporaneous A-r-a-b sources, of high position and authority, have been repeatedly cited, effecitvely and absolutely demolishing your cockeyed contention.
You have, to date, publicly (and inelegantly) dodged responding in any way to said evidence no fewer than four times, now.
Everyone here, I assure you -- your evident belief to the contrary -- can see you fleeing from said evidence, shrieking, with your arms windmilling; and has drawn the inevitable conclusion that such persistent and damning failure presents, upon sober reflection.
It is not the sort of conclusion, I might point out, that flatters your position (or you) overmuch.
3.) Pay close attention, now... because this is absolutely key, all right?
Whenever grownups debate: when one side has cited hard, verifiable evidence effectively atomizing the other side's argument: said other side is intellectually required either to rebut said evidence, or -- failing any adequate and convincing rebuttal -- to graciously accept having been out-argued... and bloody move on with his/her life.
No one here has "treated" you badly; quite the opposite, in fact, given the relentless dull provocation of your unwillingness to quite drumming your heels over this matter. That sympathy card won't "play," I'm afraid.
Re: Morris: you know as well as I do -- indeed, as well as everyone here knows -- that Alouette provided you with a link to Morris publicly and unequivocally his previous writings on this subject. Your bizarre insistence upon repeatedly citing work whose own frickin' author has long since renounced it as being wholly without merit on the particulars, is -- quite frankly -- freakish. If Morris' "word" is good enough for you to cite; then it should, likewise, be good enough for you to accept once he has unequivocally withdrawn said statements, in multiple public fora.
Finally, as to whether or not you are, in fact, an anti-Semite: I invite any interested readers, at this point, to pop your screen ID into the "search" function, and see just how many postings, over the last few days, deal with your clear and manifest dislike of Jews... and to draw their own considered conclusions, thereupon.
None of which, it should be pointed out, you have yet to competently or convincingly rebut; sulkily demanding, all the while, that others accept your arguments, no matter how readily or thoroughly discredited, "as is."
As pointed out to you before, kiddo: NOT the way grownups -- or intellectually honest adolescents, even -- handle these sorts of things, really.
For the record: you have now dodged answering the points raised no less than five separate times.
Suggestion: why not at least salvage what honor and respect you can, at this point; suck it up, like a man; stick out your hand; and admit that you weren't able to counter the evidence of contemporaneous Arab sources, or Morris' gainsaying of his own earlier works?
Even if it means you (obviously) don't end up winning the debate: you may at least score a few much-needed (IMHO) points in the Good Sportsmanship department.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.