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"Zeitgeist Surfing" (Arnold's group-sex story "pretty disgusting" -- Michael Kinsley)
slate ^ | sep 4, 03 | Michael Kinsley

Posted on 09/06/2003 1:21:14 PM PDT by churchillbuff

Zeitgeist Surfing In 1977 Arnold Schwarzenegger thought of himself as a swinger. In 2003 he thinks of himself as governor. By Michael Kinsley Posted Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 9:00 AM PT

Just a zeitgeist kind of guy

If sexual intercourse, as the poets tell us, began in 1963 ("Between the end of the 'Chatterley' ban/ And the Beatles' first LP."—Philip Larkin), it was another decade and a half before the American political system began to take notice. In those days, the late 1970s, one of the leading politicians was a soon-to-be uncle by marriage of Arnold Schwarzenegger, named Ted Kennedy. Kennedy challenged the incumbent president, Jimmy Carter, for the 1980 Democratic nomination. But he was thought to be a "womanizer," and the press was in an agony of indecision about how to deal with adultery by a politician. Apparently this was something that never had happened before.

The press spent most of that election campaign pretending that it still hadn't happened, with two exceptions. There were veiled and unexplained references to Kennedy's "private life" as a matter of potential concern. And there were earnest media-crit discussions about the issue of whether the issue should be an issue, which necessarily involved at least a hint or two of what exactly the issue might be.

This arrangement reflected the majority view among journalists at the time that a politician's sex life was politically irrelevant. The minority view (mine, among others) was the opposite. Some sexual habits reflect an attitude toward other people, especially women, that is worth knowing about in the voting booth. It's also worth knowing if a politician is a liar and hypocrite, which he is if he's campaigning with his wife and canoodling with someone else. In any event, the proper question isn't what a journalist thinks is relevant but what his or her audience thinks is relevant. Denying people information they would find useful because you think they shouldn't find it useful is censorship, not journalism.

In recurring episodes over the next couple of decades, the minority view gradually won. A profusion of factors differentiates each case from the others, including naked partisanship on both sides, but the trend has been clear. In 1987 Gary Hart said, "Follow me around—you'll be bored." In 1991, Clarence Thomas was under oath and up for a lifetime court appointment. In 1997 Bill Clinton … well, take your pick.

In 2003, though, we may have come full circle. Schwarzenegger, now running for governor of California, was interviewed in a porn mag back in 1977. The killer quote (among other, similar bits of beefcake braggadocio): "Once in Gold's gym there was a black girl who came out naked. Everybody jumped on her and took her upstairs, where we all got together. But not everybody, just the guys who can f*** in front of other guys."

Thanks in part to the Internet (especially, in this case, Slate's Mickey Kaus), you can't actually suppress information like this any longer, once it is known at all. The media treated themselves to a medium-sized frenzy over the news-starved Labor Day weekend. ("Shock Confession Haunts Terminator," headlined Britain's Mirror newspaper. "Schwarzenegger Gave Racy Interview in '77," declared the dainty Washington Post. "Recall Candidates Court Central Valley Moderates," screamed the New York Times.) Yet after a few days, the self-fulfilling consensus of the political community—pols, journalists, strategists, commentators, even Schwarzenegger's opponents—seems to be that this shouldn't and isn't going to be an issue in the campaign.

Not only that, but by at least one of the standards of the tell-all minority when this argument first started, hustling this story off the stage may even be justified because the public seems to agree that it is a nonissue. It's nice that the political pros and the public are in agreement about this. But are they right? Or has world-weary sophistication gone universal and bonkers at the same time?

True, you can't nail Arnold on hypocrisy. He told this story on himself 26 years ago and hasn't troubled to deny it since it re-emerged. In fact, if there is any dishonesty here, it may be in the anecdote itself. Did this parody of a testosterone fantasy really happen? (Kaus quotes Mr. Gold himself saying that Gold's gym had no women members back then.) But if it did happen, exactly as Arnold described it in 1977, it's pretty disgusting. It's disgusting even if it was consensual all around. It's disgusting even though Arnold wasn't married at the time. It's disgusting even if this amounts to applying the standards of the 21st century to events of the mid-1970s. Schwarzenegger isn't running for governor of California in 1975.

In terms of his fitness for elected office, the fact that Schwarzenegger bragged about this episode in a published interview makes the question of whether it really happened almost irrelevant. In 1977, at least, he wished to have people believe that he shared and was proud of an attitude toward women that is not acceptable in a politician. And in 2003, all he has said is that he doesn't remember the interview. He hasn't said whether he remembers the episode itself—or, if he doesn't, whether that is because it never happened or because it happened too often to keep track. More important, he hasn't said what he thinks about it all from the perspective of 2003.

Arnold may be just surfing the zeitgeist: a swinger in the swinging '70s (Were they swinging? Hard to recall …), a governor in the sober 2000s. Like similar statements from George W. Bush about his drinking and Dan Quayle about evading the draft, Schwarzenegger has said he didn't know back then that he'd be running for governor today. Which works fine as an explanation, but fails miserably as exoneration.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: California
KEYWORDS: 2003election; arnoldbashing; barfalert; bustamante; california; clintonlegacy; clintonyesarnoldno; conservativebashing; davisrecallelection; desperateneinos; dnctalkingpoints; doublestandard; election2003; geeksforbustar; itsjustsex; mediabias; rampanthypocrisy; recall; schwarzenegger; shill; slate
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1 posted on 09/06/2003 1:21:15 PM PDT by churchillbuff
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To: churchillbuff
""""if it did happen, exactly as Arnold described it in 1977, it's pretty disgusting. It's disgusting even if it was consensual all around. It's disgusting even though Arnold wasn't married at the time. It's disgusting even if this amounts to applying the standards of the 21st century to events of the mid-1970s. """

The irony here is that the so-called "conservatives" who are Arnold sycophants loudly deny that the story is disgusting - -- - It shows how the Arnold candidacy is degrading the conservative movement and the Republican Party by defining deviancy down, even in the party that is supposed to stand for standards.

2 posted on 09/06/2003 1:23:24 PM PDT by churchillbuff
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To: churchillbuff
HA! Michael Kinsley...You're sinking pretty low there, Churchill.
3 posted on 09/06/2003 1:25:03 PM PDT by Hildy
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To: churchillbuff
Tsk, tsk! And where was Kinsley's outrage and questioning the suitablity of Voldemort's qualifications for the highest office when it was 'just about consensual sex' or an old rape story??
4 posted on 09/06/2003 1:25:46 PM PDT by Brasil
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To: churchillbuff
Kinsley can't even get a two person orgy going with his wife.
5 posted on 09/06/2003 1:25:46 PM PDT by Az Joe
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To: churchillbuff
Michael Kinsley is disgusted by Arnold's behavior of thirty years ago, but wasn't at all disgusted by Bill Clinton's sexual escapades, and Arnold was at least single at the time.
6 posted on 09/06/2003 1:27:29 PM PDT by Eva
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To: Brasil
Tsk, tsk! And where was Kinsley's outrage and questioning the suitablity of Voldemort's qualifications for the highest office when it was 'just about consensual sex' or an old rape story??

Your point can be turned around - - where are the conservatives who had a problem with Clinton, even with his antics as far back as the 70s? Arnold's candidacy is making them feel comfortable with depravity - - - - that's why I say it's exercising a degrading influence on the party. Having a GOP governor of the largest state be a pro-abort, pro-gay-adoption liberal is going to undermine the party as a voice for social standards, but I guess you don't care about that?

7 posted on 09/06/2003 1:28:50 PM PDT by churchillbuff
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To: Eva
but wasn't at all disgusted by Bill Clinton's sexual escapades

That's not true.

8 posted on 09/06/2003 1:30:10 PM PDT by xm177e2 (Stalinists, Maoists, Ba'athists, Pacifists: Why are they always on the same side?)
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To: Eva
Michael Kinsley is disgusted by Arnold's behavior of thirty years ago, but wasn't at all disgusted by Bill Clinton's sexual escapades, and Arnold was at least single at the time.

You were disgusted by Clinton, but not by Arnold's group sex, or by his - present-day - pro-abortion, pro-gay-adoption-of-young-boys position. Why is Kinsley more of a hypocrite than the "conservatives" who shed their moral standards in order to swoon over Arnold?

9 posted on 09/06/2003 1:30:29 PM PDT by churchillbuff
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To: churchillbuff

If Clinton gets one Free Grope and Arnie gets one Free Gangbang, is it OK if Clinton inhales?

The only difference between Clinton and Arnie is that Clinton is ashamed of what he has done.


10 posted on 09/06/2003 1:31:21 PM PDT by Common Tator (I support Billybob. www.ArmorforCongress.com)
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To: Hildy
Why is Kinsley more of a hypocrite than the "conservatives" who once affirmed family values, the value of life and that gays should be allowed to adopt young boys, but who have now shed their moral standards in order to swoon over Arnold?

11 posted on 09/06/2003 1:31:45 PM PDT by churchillbuff
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To: xm177e2
It is true, O'Reilly posted comparison quotes from Kinsley on his show, yesterday.
12 posted on 09/06/2003 1:31:58 PM PDT by Eva
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To: churchillbuff
There is more irony in the fact that the same folks who were calling Bill Clinton's sexual antics with Gennifer Flowers, Paula Jones, Joanne Broaderick (and others) "ancient history" and telling us to "just move on" are now all worked up about something that happened when bell-bottoms were in style and the BeeGees hadn't even recorded Night Fever.

I agree with you that Arnold's candidacy does little to enhance the conservative movement. But I just thought I'd point that out.

13 posted on 09/06/2003 1:32:27 PM PDT by SamAdams76 (Back in boot camp! 224.8 (-75.2))
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To: Common Tator
The only difference between Clinton and Arnie is that Clinton is ashamed of what he has done.

Shame at least shows a sense of right and wrong.

14 posted on 09/06/2003 1:32:40 PM PDT by churchillbuff
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To: churchillbuff
"Zeitgeist Surfing" (Arnold's group-sex story "pretty disgusting" -- Michael Kinsley)

Yes, but on the other hand, Michael Kinsley is, in and of himself, pretty disgusting.
15 posted on 09/06/2003 1:33:18 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: churchillbuff
I think conservatives are disgusted by both of them in this regard. However, the clinton thing just wasn't about sex. It was about rape and perjury.
16 posted on 09/06/2003 1:34:31 PM PDT by Monty22
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To: Common Tator
The only difference between Clinton and Arnie is that Clinton is ashamed of what he has done.

You have no basis to say this, doubly so.
17 posted on 09/06/2003 1:34:43 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: churchillbuff
Hey, Kinsley, you idiot, Clinton's transgressions concerned improper use of power to quash his accusers in sexual harassment cases, including such tactics as character assassination and use of military force as a diversion. Kennedy's transgression concerned homicide, not sex.

In contrast, Arnold's transgressions indeed concerned only sex, while he was single, 3 decades ago. Only a moron can't discern the difference.
18 posted on 09/06/2003 1:34:44 PM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: Common Tator
The only difference between Clinton and Arnie is that Clinton is ashamed of what he has done.


LOL..... You now believe Clinton?...... LOL

19 posted on 09/06/2003 1:35:42 PM PDT by deport
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To: churchillbuff
Nobody is swooning, Churchill. I know you understand this, but I will repeat it. I would rather have a fiscal conservative than a Socialist right now as Governor of California. These are our choices. McClintock cannot and will not win. Next best thing, Arnold. I will not cut off my nose to spite my face. If you wish too, go right ahead. But don't you dare post anything about the plight of California when Gov. Bustamante starts giving us away.
20 posted on 09/06/2003 1:36:46 PM PDT by Hildy
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