SCIENTOLOGY: NO RIGHTS, PLEASE

pagesix ^ | 09/04/03 | P6

[Pikamax]

TOM Cruise, John Travolta, Lisa Marie Presley, Kirstie Alley, Juliette Lewis and other Scientologists may have signed away many of the rights that most Americans take for granted. As they move up into the higher levels of the Church of Scientology, members sign documents giving up their right to psychiatric care and to see their families.

[callmemrpurpose]

"Could you point to me to where Scientology admits that some of its teachings are secret? I very well may have missed it, but in all the reading I've done, I haven't seen it stated quite that way."

Take a look at the scientology "grade chart" it says it right next to the level.

"If you somehow have to "condition" people to accept your teachings, there MUST be something wrong with them. You keep coming back to this "accepting" you, well, I don't care if you wrap yourselves in tinfiol and play Bee Gee's albums backwards waiting for the mother ship. Just don't expect us to pay for it by granting your "church" tax-exempt status. And when you CONTINUALLY harass your critics, don't expect them to go quietly."

There are critics for everything and there are 2 sides to every quarrel. Nothing is absolute and I'm sorry if you think otherwise.

"No. By having a significant financial stake in the outcome, people are much more likely to give a good critique"

Not if that person felt ripped off. If you bought a basket of fruit and they were all rotten inside would you would take it back or eat it?

"I'm not talking "basics", I'm talking SPECIFICS. Apparently they have something to hide, and knowing the whole story, I can see why."

Apparently you've figured it all out no there is no need to even talk to me.

[TomB]

Apparently you've figured it all out no there is no need to even talk to me.

Actually, I'm still waiting for you to defend your "beliefs". But all I get is bromides. You say NOTHING to back up the Co$.

You can't defend L. Ron's deceitful bio.

You can't defend the unscientific story of Xenu, thetans and Teegeeack.

You can't defend the fact that the Co$ gets tax-exempt status as a "church", yet you charge people for auditing.

You can't defend the behavior of Scientology toward its critics.

You can't explain how a simple electrical device, which can be built for 20 bucks and a trip to Radio Shack, and only crudely measures skin resistance, can give an "auditor" an insights into the human mind.

You can't justify the secrecy that your organization holds over its higher levels, even to the point of telling people if they are exposed to them before they were ready, they could die.

As a matter of fact, in this whole discussion, you haven't given any reason for me to believe Scientology is anything but a cult. On the contrary, your contining mantra of "can't you just leave us alone" makes me even more convinced.

[searchandrecovery]

Funny.

Oh ouch. You have certainly dealt the enemy an effective blow. You may now advance to your next higher ethics condition. I have certainly learned my lesson. Never think about clams - that opening and shutting motion - my jaw, my jaw, it hurts!

[callmemrpurpose]

"You can't defend the fact that the Co$ gets tax-exempt status as a "church", yet you charge people for auditing."

We'll I don't feel the need to defend it, the supreme court already granted it. Silly.

"You can't explain how a simple electrical device, which can be built for 20 bucks and a trip to Radio Shack, and only crudely measures skin resistance, can give an "auditor" an insights into the human mind."

If you are refering to the e-meter well it works like a lie detector but, LRH worked long and hard at techniques to guide people using the machine with the goal of raising their awareness of self. And it works. It doesn't read thought it MEASURES it, it's up to the auditor to ask the right questions with what he can see visually happening to the person as well as what is measured on the machine which gives him an index of whats going on within the person. There are books on the e-meter that I'm sure you wont read and you could go into a church to get a demonstration of it at work.

Additionally lie detectors don't detect lies, they display resistance and disagreements, which also explains why people think it detects lies. You ask someone if they killed a person and they say "no" but they know they did it, they disagree with themselves because they know it's not true, however they may also not have done it but have tremendous disagreements with it happening, therefor it reads and they get the electric chair.

"On the contrary, your contining mantra of "can't you just leave us alone" makes me even more convinced."

Again you misquote me.

"Actually, I'm still waiting for you to defend your "beliefs". But all I get is bromides. You say NOTHING to back up the Co$."

I'm applying Ghandis principle of "first they make fun of
you, then they fight you, then you win" hehe

But seriously we both know you aren't actually interested in listening to me so cool it.



PS pardon my bad writing, I'm in a rush.

[TomB]

We'll I don't feel the need to defend it, the supreme court already granted it. Silly.

Silly?

Could you please post a link to that SC decision?

And, let's assume for a moment the Supreme Court "granted" tax exemption to the Co$. Why does that mean it is settled law? By your specious logic, abortion is completely moral and acceptable because of Roe. Sorry, that argument doesn't wash.

If you are refering to the e-meter well it works like a lie detector

Yes, I am referring to the "e-meter" and no, it doesn't work like a lie detector. The measurement of skin resistance is a part of how a lie detector works. Comparing the e-meter to a lie detector is like comparing a calculator to a PC. In addition, the lie detector is a notoriously inaccurate device, which doesn't say much for the e-meter.

But as far as your descussion on how the meter works, its all useless beacuse the device is so inaccurate. Really, how accurate can something be when it acutally says (according to L. Ron in The Book Introducing The E-Meter p. 28) "Ordinary "tin" cans with the paper label stripped off are preferred. Although they are less attractive, they give a more accurate response." That is just plain "silly".

I'm applying Ghandis principle of "first they make fun of you, then they fight you, then you win" hehe

I guess whenever you have nothing to support your beliefs, you'll try anything.

But seriously we both know you aren't actually interested in listening to me so cool it.

Cool it? I don't think so newbie.

And the reason it seems I'm not listening is because you aren't saying anything.

[windchime]

Bump!

[Samwise]

those used dog food aluminum cans

What in the world are you talking about? The thing Travolta is holding? What is it?

[TomB]

What in the world are you talking about? The thing Travolta is holding? What is it?

See post 185, they actually prefer "ordinary tin-cans".

[callmemrpurpose]

"But as far as your descussion on how the meter works, its all useless beacuse the device is so inaccurate. Really, how accurate can something be when it acutally says (according to L. Ron in The Book Introducing The E-Meter p. 28) "Ordinary "tin" cans with the paper label stripped off are preferred. Although they are less attractive, they give a more accurate response." That is just plain "silly"."

Tin cans are conductive enough to do the trick. The e-meter flows a very small charge through the body and then measures the mental resistance depending on how steady the electrical flow is. Thats all and thats what a lie detector does. It is easily proven by holding both cans and letting go of one, there will be no resistance whatsoever. Basic.

But besides that I believe things have changed since the days of using the busch bean cans. We now have specially made cans. Oohh

"Yes, I am referring to the "e-meter" and no, it doesn't work like a lie detector. The measurement of skin resistance is a part of how a lie detector works. Comparing the e-meter to a lie detector is like comparing a calculator to a PC. In addition, the lie detector is a notoriously inaccurate device, which doesn't say much for the e-meter."

It works on the same principles as a lie detector and yes lie detectors are inaccurate but I already went into that. Had you actually read my earlier post you would find that we are in agreement on that fact, but at the same time the e-meter isn't used as a lie detector it's used for something completely different. It's used to better man, not condemn him.

"Could you please post a link to that SC decision?"

I'll get back to you on that, I have to run.

[TomB]

Tin cans are conductive enough to do the trick.

I'll be darned, something I can agree with.

A freudian slip, maybe? (Oops, I forgot, you don't like those people)

The e-meter flows a very small charge through the body and then measures the mental resistance depending on how steady the electrical flow is.

If it is a "very small charge", how can a device that uses tin cans actually measure it?

Thats all and thats what a lie detector does

The lie detector does MUCH more than that.

It is easily proven by holding both cans and letting go of one, there will be no resistance whatsoever.

So tell me, how is it supposed to work when you hold both cans in the SAME hand? That would defeat the purpose.

Basic

Quite basic for a device that is supposed to be so precise.

"Trick" indeed.

[callmemrpurpose]

"So tell me, how is it supposed to work when you hold both cans in the SAME hand? That would defeat the purpose."

As long as the cans weren't touching eachoher it would still create a circut through the body.

You want proof; stick one finger in one side of an outlet then another finger from the same hand into the other side.

[discostu]

I like the one with the caption. Classic L Ron Hubbard bad English. What a hack.

[discostu]

Search under "hack golden age sci-fi author".

Scientology was a bad joke, and now it's a creepy wierd cult. At least the Church of the Subgenious has kept to its roots as a bad joke.

[yankeeheart]

It was involved in the cult for too many years. I knew most of Hubbard's children. I got a lot of letters from him, some truly from him, others of the "forged by staff" variety. But I know his handwriting, and that's his handwriting on the OTIII document. I also knew the lady who was his nurse during the time he was doing that so-called "research."

A convenient line from scientologists with supposed super-abilities (none of them really have any) is that "you didn't do it, so you don't really know."

I didn't drink Jim Jones' Kool-Aid, either, but I know those people are dead.

And scientology is the most conspicuously evil cult on the face of the planet. The good thing is, it's dying by the day.

[callmemrpurpose]

"And scientology is the most conspicuously evil cult on the face of the planet."

HAHAHA You know that is not true! Thats a baldfaced hatefull lie. Just look at what scientology has done for drug and criminal rehabilitation. Especially in Mexico! So please, give me a break.

"The good thing is, it's dying by the day."

hmm Ok... In case you didn't know Scientology is the fastest growing religion in ratio to other religions. Sorry to break it to you but that is the truth. So why are you saying the opposite? And why is it that none of my friends have left and I only see expansion and prosperity of it all around and in my area?

I've heard all the bad and all the good. Of course there are always 2 sides to everything. My guess (and yes I'll venture to say it since you don't seem to have a problem with saying things you aren't positively sure of)is that you screwed up terribly and have to justify it by doing what you are doing now. But thats just a guess of course.

Just because you failed miserably doesn't mean everyone is a failure. Your argument is completely arbitrary and careless of the facts. Either you are hiding something, somebody has been feeding you this crap until you started to believe it or you just don't know what you are talking about at all. I can't say unless I knew you personally. Butfor what it's worth, I will be completely honest with myself in all of my replies and posts. k.

cheers

By the way I'm not going to make an effort be nice anymore unless people start being a bit more "conservative" and less antagonistic. I will respond to each post according to their question or criticism and how they present it to me.

This is not the right way to debate or even have a civil conversation.