Free State Project

http://www.freestateproject.org ^

[ConservativeDude]

Free State Project members, please comment.

[boris]

My problem is that my medical conditions force me to live near a large city with excellent medical facilities. NH and Vermont would be my choice...were I healthy.

I was born in Baltimore, but I escaped...and I would return there just to be near Johns Hopkins. But MD is one of the most liberal states.

Ghod, I'd love Vermont. Especially with its lack of gun laws. I like cold places, lots of weather, and no hurricanes, tornados or earthquakes.

Alas.

--Boris

[Chad Fairbanks]

New Hampshire, at least in the past, had a fairly wide 'libertarian' streak - pretty conservative, and freedom-loving. I havn't lived there in over a decade however, so it could have, and most likely has, changed in that time if the influx of Flatlanders has continued unimpeded...

[Chad Fairbanks]

They DO have some excellent hospitals in the area - Dartmouth, Mary Hitchcock, the VA over in White River (Still there?)

[Sparta]

ping

[Sparta]

I'm undecided whether or not I'm going to sign up for the FSP. I want to see which state is selected first. However, I do believe the Feds will use both economic and military force to try and crush it.

[Sparta]

As of August 31, 2003:

• 5,372 FSP members
• 134.1 new members per week (10 week average)
• We have passed the 5,000 member mark!
• We will reach 20,000 members in approximately 109.2 weeks

[William Tell]

Pest said: "However, you need a solid group of industrious, like-minded people to make it work. I'm afraid that some Free Staters may be malcontents who would not pull their weight, leaving everyone in the same situation as before."

I don't think this is an experiment in Marxism. If someone among this group doesn't pull his weight, then his family does not eat. That won't affect the others in the slightest. The only reason to pick one state is so that the balance in that state can be tipped toward individual responsibility and away from collectivism.

If the plan was to locate everyone in the same locale within the state, that would simply introduce problems into such a locale that it doesn't deserve.

As I would envision it, there would be no need for Free Staters to even know who the others are. The benefit comes just from the shift in political leanings of the entire population.

Free Staters should probably be urged to "encourage" liberals to start their own "Slave State" program to relocate elsewhere. This will have a similar beneficial effect on the political leanings of the whole state.

[Phantom Lord]

It would be a far better state than what it is now.

[frodolives]

Everybody stay the hell out of Idaho- we're full already.

[ConservativeDude]

"The concern I have is that charlatans who have 'nothing left to lose' maybe interested as opposed to familiy community types like myself who wish only to raise their children in a community that loves the liberty so treasured by their ancestors and debased by the the last 4-6 generations."

this is a real issue. it is an issue which is inherent in any type of small "l" libertarian politics...i don't know how to get around it. at the end of the day, however, i guess so long as the lifestyle libertarians let me worship freely, defend myself, educate my children and keep what i earn, then i can reciprocate. i think your post pinpoints the issue nicely, though.

[Pest]

Free Staters should probably be urged to "encourage" liberals to start their own "Slave State" program to relocate elsewhere. This will have a similar beneficial effect on the political leanings of the whole state.

It already exists. It's called California.

[tpaine]

Yeah, this will go over well. Remember the last time this was tried...1861?
20 -pup-


You've got it backwards.
The 'free state' citizens would be insisting that the feds honor our constitution.
-- They would NOT be in rebellion against its principles.

[ConservativeDude]

Free Staters should probably be urged to "encourage" liberals to start their own "Slave State" program to relocate elsewhere.

that was really funny, and true...

[ConservativeDude]

The 'free state' citizens would be insisting that the feds honor our constitution.

a free state could eliminate property and income taxes, eliminate zoning, abolish public education, give greater protection than the 2nd amendment affords and do many other things which would be perfectly permissible under the US constitution, even as currently misconstrued.

[Pest]

I simply cannot see a scenario where a state parasite would want to live in the Free State. It's just not a major concern of mine. The concern I have is that charlatans who have 'nothing left to lose' maybe interested as opposed to familiy community types like myself who wish only to raise their children in a community that loves the liberty so treasured by their ancestors and debased by the the last 4-6 generations.

I guess I was trying to make the same point, but I wasn't specific or well-worded enough. You're concern is valid. Heck, look at what has happened here in the U.S. I think the Founding Fathers started off much like the Free Staters. However, it's been spoiled after only a couple of hundred years.

[Pest]

Welfare recipients move out of state pretty dang fast when the bennies dry up...

Good point.

[tpaine]

However, I do believe the Feds will use both economic and military force to try and crush it.
45 -Sparta-


This would be the biggest mistake the feds could make.
-- It would quarantee success, imo, as millions of americans would join to support the movment with time & money, if not physical presence.

[Sparta]

It would quarantee success, imo, as millions of americans would join to support the movment with time & money, if not physical presence.

Yep. And the fight wouldn't be just contained to the Free State either.

[tpaine]

Yep. You've got the principle.

As long as the free states government did not outright defy current federal 'law', and instead -- big point, -- defended the rights of its citizens who practiced ~civil~ disobedience to unconstitutional 'fed regs', the feds would be stymied in enforcement efforts, the way I understand the theory of the issue.

A very fine line would have to be walked to keep all confrontations limited to the courtrooms.

- I'm surprised unemployed lawyers aren't the biggest advocates of the FSP..

[A.J.Armitage]

Actually 1861 was something altogether different.

The last (and as far as I know only) time this was tried was lefties moving to Vermont. It worked.