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To: Fishrrman; goldstategop; Cindy; STARWISE; freeangel; Maria S; TERMINATTOR; *immigrant_list; ...
Hello John,

There is certainly a large amount of truth in what you say, and I'm inclined to agree with many of your opinions.

However, your central thesis overlooks one important point: immigration is not controlled by the states; it is controlled by the federal government. So even if the politicians of California don't have the stomach to take on illegal immigration, it ultimately wouldn't matter if the federal government did its job in securing the borders and deporting illegals. But therein lies the problem: the federal government doesn't have the stomach to take on illegal immigration either. It won't be until all the people of America raise their voices in unison about this problem, that the politicians--at all levels of government--will start to take action.

And that leads me to my second bone of contention with your post: namely, that the rest of the US should stand back and watch California "fall away" (as you put it). I would call this "Kitty Genovese Diplomacy."** The arguments that "it's not our problem", or that the rest of America would be "better off without California" are dangerously false.

This is a problem for all citizens (and legal immigrants). If the federal government is willing to allow California (and other border states) to collapse under the weight of illegal immigration, why do you think they'll act to protect your state? As the border states overflow with illegals, where do you think they'll go next? (Hint: look at the growth of illegals already occurring in your own neighborhoods.)

Furthermore, consider this: why do you think the economy of America is so bad right now? One of the main reasons--if not the main reason--is because California is dragging the national economy down like a giant ball-and-chain. California's state debt is greater that the combined state budgets of all other 49 states. California was (before Gray Davis took office) the fourth or fifth largest economy in the world. If America were to let California "fall away", do you not think the rest of the country would feel it? (Heck, the whole world would feel it!) That would be like doctors cutting out a necrotic heart and then sewing up the empty chest cavity: the diseased organ will be excised, but the patient will still die.

Do you really want to pick up the tax burden previously filled by a once productive and prosperous California? As California becomes a giant welfare trough for the overpopulating poor (mainly) from Central and South America, who do you think is going to be paying for their "social services"? (Hint: it won't be Californian taxpayers because, as you say, most will either be "marginalized" or will "physically escape".) The truth is, the forty-some other non-border states will become the "rich uncle" that will be bled dry to feed, clothe, house, school, entertain,... the occupying invasion of illegals. That won't happen, you say? You won't allow that? Why not? You're already willing to allow it to happen to California. And as California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and others fall under de-facto Mexican control, what do you think is going to happen to their Senators, Congressmen, and numerous electoral votes? If you think our federal government is corrupt, wasteful, and repressive now, just wait until it's controlled from south-of-the-border!

As I said before, if we lose the battle against the invasion of illegals in California and other border states, then we will lose America...all of America!

[** For those not familiar with Kitty Genovese, she was a young woman living in New York in the early 1960's. One night, while walking home from work, a man attacked her with a knife. Her screams brought dozens of her neighbors to their windows. But not one of them did anything to help. No one even bothered to call the police, and Genovese was stabbed, raped, and stabbed again (to death) over the course of half-an-hour. This phenomenon is referred to as "bystander apathy."]

33 posted on 09/02/2003 12:57:26 PM PDT by SpyGuy
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To: SpyGuy
SpyGuy writes:
Do you really want to pick up the tax burden previously filled by a once productive and prosperous California? As California becomes a giant welfare trough for the overpopulating poor (mainly) from Central and South America, who do you think is going to be paying for their "social services"? (Hint: it won't be Californian taxpayers because, as you say, most will either be "marginalized" or will "physically escape".) The truth is, the forty-some other non-border states will become the "rich uncle" that will be bled dry to feed, clothe, house, school, entertain,... the occupying invasion of illegals. That won't happen, you say? You won't allow that? Why not? You're already willing to allow it to happen to California. And as California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and others fall under de-facto Mexican control...

As I stated in my original posting, California will almost certainly become the first state to face bankruptcy. With the billions upon billions upon billions of dollars they are in debt (and that's only _this_ year's debt, not considering each and every year to come), there can be no escape.

No governor -- not even one wielding his line-item veto like a Jedi sword -- is going to be able to free California from this debt. No one. The debt burden is "embedded" into California's [deteriorating and Mexicanizing] culture and social structures in ways that cannot be reversed. Can you seriously assert to me that _any_ new governor, McClintock or Swarnegger or ANYone, is going to take steps to prevent illegals from sapping the public health system with free medical care? Can you seriously assert to me that _any_ new governor, McClintock or Swarnegger or ANYone, is going to take steps to end the ridiculous requirement that more than 50% of all state spending be earmarked for education (educating a huge number of illegal children)??? Please respond to these questions directly, and maybe I'll believe your arguments have weight.

But you are overlooking something else that will become very important -- perhaps not in the next few years, but certainly within a decade or two. As whites and businesses flee and mestizos flock to the state, there will arise (shades of "Reconquista!") a cultural sentiment that California should again become a part of Mexico. _Mexico_, and _not_ the United States. We will almost certainly see the rise of a "separatist" movement a la the Party Quebecois. Granted, Quebec [at this time] remains a part of Canada, but the possibility remains that the citizens of that province could someday vote to secede from the Canadian commonwealth. If that day ever comes, I predict English-speaking Canada would make scant effort to restrain Quebec from secession.

If anything, the situation in California is deteriorating so rapidly that it may reach the "cultural breakoff point" _before_ Quebec.

What will the _rest_ of America think when California has become a financial burden on the national coffers, with an ever-increasing alien population (now surging into the majority) clamoring for cultural secession?

Prediction: the citizens of the "other 49" may just decide to relinquish the California territories -- which by that time will little resemble what it did when it was culturally part of the United States -- back to from where they came, with all the social and financial problems along with it.

Your prediction of "de facto" Mexican control will at that point face conversion to "de jure" control. If it's "Atzlan" they want, let them have it. There will be little left to save, and the costs (to Americans) of trying to "save" California will have become more than the costs of "letting it go".

SpyGuy continued:
As I said before, if we lose the battle against the invasion of illegals in California and other border states, then we will lose America...all of America!

You could very well be right. But I sense that -- for the vast majority of "the rest" of America (read: flyover country), the illegal issue is just now beginning to come to a head -- along with the realization that neither the Democrats nor the Republicans are _ever_ going to do anything to stop it, short of a grassroots revolution.

Perhaps all is lost. Perhaps the innundation of illegals in California is unstoppable for the rest of the nation. Unsure at this point. One thing I can state: the illegal invasion _is_ most certainly "unstoppable" in California, far past critical mass at this point. How can it ever be contained (which would not solve the problem) or _reversed_ (which _might_)? I challenge you to refute this.

For these reasons, the loss of Atzlan (or, more correctly, the "conversion" of previously white California into brown Atzlan) may become the "clarion call" for a new rebirth of European-American cultural consciousness and defense. Kind of a "last stand" for the white folks?

As California falls, it will -- it MUST -- be this rebirth of cultural consciousness if there is any chance to save the REST of the country.

California cannot be saved. Oh, conservatives out there continue to rail against the obvious, as Lear raged against the storm that would eventually destroy him. But there is still time remaining to "build the cultural wall" necessary to contain much of the rest of the land.

Whether we do that or not (and, frankly, I wish I could be more optimistic that it will be done) is solely a matter of our resolve to do so.

Cheers!
- John

34 posted on 09/02/2003 1:50:17 PM PDT by Fishrrman
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To: SpyGuy
As I said before, if we lose the battle against the invasion of illegals in California and other border states, then we will lose America...all of America!

I am confident that this is starting to sink in, at least to the American people. I can't say the same for our so-called leaders.

36 posted on 09/02/2003 4:47:38 PM PDT by Joe Hadenuf
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To: SpyGuy
True
39 posted on 09/02/2003 7:16:16 PM PDT by novacation
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