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Illegal Immigration: A Possible Solution
Self ^ | 8/29/2003 | Rockitz

Posted on 08/29/2003 6:58:25 AM PDT by Rockitz

I am an engineer so I love a good problem and illegal immigration certainly fits that bill. First, let me say that I believe that those who do venture to this country are among the brightest and hardest working individuals that the world has to offer. Certainly it takes a special person to consciously decide to make such a radical change in their life. Having said that, the idea of being in opposition to the law tends to make such an individual operate in a manner that seeks to avoid detection. Accordingly, such a person would be hesitant to register their presence in any manner, whether it be through "official" employment, a bank account, a credit card, a regular doctor, the Department of Motor Vehicles, a post office, or any other activity that might make that person's presence known to law enforcement. As such, norms of society such as paying income tax, DMV registration, health insurance, and the like are naturally avoided through cash compensation for work, operating vehicles without a license or registration, using public clinics and hospital emergency rooms for health maintenance, etc. While that means of operation may be appealing to the illegal immigrant on a number of counts, it leaves the remaining citizenry to pay the cost of government services like education, law enforcement, fire protection, infrastructure, and the like as well as higher costs for health care, auto insurance and other private services. While the illegal immigrant does pay certain state sales taxes, such payments are certainly a very small fraction of those paid by the average citizen who also pays federal and state income tax, social security, various insurances, etc.

National registration of alien workers, increased border security, and laws forbidding the hiring of illegal immigrants have significant costs in themselves and do little to attack the costs that the illegal immigrant imposes on society. A possible solution that does address these costs imposed by illegal immigration is collection of a Value Added Tax (VAT) or national or state-based sales tax. This tax would apply to all goods and services and ultimately make it difficult for an illegal immigrant to shirk responsibility for any of the myriad of costs that he routinely passes on to the remaining citizenry. Although all would pay it, those legal residents who are responsible in paying and filing their tax returns could recoup such taxes through reduced income tax rates. For those at the lower end of the economic scale, such taxes could be offset by credits. For those at the upper end of the economic scale, such taxes could be used to justify substantial decreases in income tax rates. While I personally believe that passing those collected taxes through the government is detestable on numerous counts including considerable inefficiencies and potential diversion to pet programs, the status quo is unacceptable and will ultimately bankrupt our states and nation. The idea of a VAT or national sales tax is far from original, however it is typically ignored by conservatives simply because it is a tax. I choose to look at it as a viable alternative tax policy that will close the "cash compensation" loophole and ultimately discourage illegal immigration.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; Mexico; US: California; US: Texas; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: illegalimmigration; immigrantlist; immigration; nationalsalestax; taxpolicy; valueaddedtat; vat
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To: MatthewViti
Although I have understood from a few others that it is hard to tell, I was referring to all immigrants- legal and illegal. See posts 24 and 43 for my comments on that.
161 posted on 08/30/2003 2:36:36 PM PDT by Rockitz (After all these years, it's still rocket science.)
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To: MatthewViti
Although I have understood from a few others that it is hard to tell, I was referring to all immigrants- legal and illegal. See posts 24 and 43 for my comments on that.
162 posted on 08/30/2003 2:38:31 PM PDT by Rockitz (After all these years, it's still rocket science.)
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To: MatthewViti
Sorry for the triple post. Strange response from the server today for some reason.
163 posted on 08/30/2003 2:40:57 PM PDT by Rockitz (After all these years, it's still rocket science.)
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To: mamelukesabre
...totally eliminating the old method of legally stealing money from us first.

I'm a big flat tax advocate. I'm all for putting the IRS and a lot of accountants out of business.

KEEP THEM OUT OF HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Enforcement doesn't seem to be our strong suit. The VAT is another deterrent besides the law that hits the illegal in the wallet.

you are sadly mistaken about illegal mexicans being such high caliber people.

Although I've been told it's hard to tell, the second sentence was referring to all immigrants- legal and illegal. See posts 24 and 43 for clarification.

164 posted on 08/30/2003 2:48:22 PM PDT by Rockitz (After all these years, it's still rocket science.)
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To: mamelukesabre
It would also be a good idea to make groceries exempt.

That defeats the purpose of the VAT as a disincentive to illegals. All that many buy is food and shelter.

165 posted on 08/30/2003 2:52:09 PM PDT by Rockitz (After all these years, it's still rocket science.)
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To: moehoward
I agree that a VAT or a flat tax scheme of some sort is preferable to the current system. But not in addition to.

The more I think about it, the more I could go for that. There is much less chance for the politicians to steal more than necessary.

SS# verification system

Read post 100 by helper. It takes so long for the government to get back to employers that illegals simply jump to a new job by the time the employer is informed the the SS# is no good. This process apparently takes 6 to 9 months. Outrageous! Whatever it costs this process should be sped up. It should take no longer that it does to use a debit or credit card at your local grocery store.

After a tenuous beginning on this thread, I think we're at least in the same chapter, if not on the same page.

Best regards...

166 posted on 08/30/2003 3:02:38 PM PDT by Rockitz (After all these years, it's still rocket science.)
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To: spirit_free
Actually, as has been brought up by a couple others on this thread, besides illegals, the VAT would catch all who get cash compensation including- those involved in illegal activities like drug dealing, prostitution, etc. You're right it's not revenue neutral, it's a plus from a collections standpoint and an actual reduction for traditional taxpayers.

BTW, I have graduate courses in economics- probably more than you, my friend.
167 posted on 08/30/2003 3:09:36 PM PDT by Rockitz (After all these years, it's still rocket science.)
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Comment #168 Removed by Moderator

To: Rockitz
The IRS contacts the employer according to when they file their return. If Pepe starts defrauding the employer in May of 2003 he is home free until April of 04.

The system has to check against data at Social Security.

There is already a system in place and can be done on the web. However it only confirms the validity of a SS#, not a cross reference to a name etc.

 

169 posted on 08/30/2003 3:47:43 PM PDT by moehoward
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To: Rockitz
Sorry, I doubt it Rockitz. I hope you understood physics better than you comprehend economics.

You can slam me all you want, but the truth of the matter is that we have a huge disagreement here. You are NOT someone I would ever vote for and you know all the reasons why. You have a politician's ego, and we already have plenty of politicians of your sort to go around. Thanks, but no thanks.

170 posted on 08/30/2003 4:48:06 PM PDT by spirit_free (How many Congressional Democrats belong to the Socialist Party of America ..... lots!)
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To: lawdude
That's just a dumb thing to say.

Think about it wouldya! You don't hear about the ones that make the walk successfully because if they are successful, no one knows they did it. You only hear about the ones that don't make it.



171 posted on 08/30/2003 4:51:05 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: spirit_free
As an accountant and perfectionist, it is doubtful that anyone could convince you of anything beyond the bounds of basic arithmetic. I am not concerned with convincing people such as yourself that don't have the capability to think outside of the box. Sounds like a lot of sour grapes from someone with zero imagination and zero creativity. I think its probably in the definition of accountant- at least in your case.
172 posted on 09/02/2003 11:50:45 PM PDT by Rockitz (After all these years, it's still rocket science.)
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To: spirit_free
Aha! Anything like a flat tax would put tax accountants out of business and depress your entire profession for decades. The VAT might be the first step in the conversion to a flat tax and thus your true motivation is revealed!
173 posted on 09/03/2003 8:32:54 AM PDT by Rockitz (After all these years, it's still rocket science.)
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To: Rockitz
Ya know ... you are so damned stupid.
Why don't you try to find something positive to do, no one is listening to your idiotic ideas ... ok?
174 posted on 09/03/2003 9:09:26 AM PDT by spirit_free (How many Congressional Democrats belong to the Socialist Party of America ..... lots!)
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To: spirit_free
Must've hit a nerve. Honey, I'm a rocket scientist and you aren't. Case closed. Buh bye.
175 posted on 09/03/2003 7:28:51 PM PDT by Rockitz (After all these years, it's still rocket science.)
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