Help my ex-Marine son defend President Bush

Hi, Matt. I'm _________, _____boyfriend. Look, I'm not Pro Clinton because I know what he did under the table [pardon the pun] while in office. I don't rely on email forwards to give me perspective, I gather information. Information gathering would be the best way to ascertain the facts of a matter.

Clinton, being a draft dodger, didn't send our troops into wholesale slaughter as Bush has done, he requested help from NATO and The U.N.; Bosnia required our involvement. Bosnia was a perfect example of and the nearest thing, historically, to the Holocaust we've seen in our own lifetimes. I thought this was an interesting piece you sent but did you notice that Bill Clinton received a pardon on January 21, 1977 from Carter. He was Pardoned. George W. Bush has never received a pardon for his being AWOL from '72-'73.

G.W. is also committing our youth to die in a war without end, all while not even serving himself. In fact none of the men who are currently waging war against the world have ever served, none of them have ever seen the horrors of war. Oh, Colin Powell has, but look what he has to say about the type of men he shares the cabinet positions with, "I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well-placed... managed to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units...Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all Americans are created equal and owe equal allegiance to their country." Colin Powell?s autobiography, My American Journey, p. 148

If you remember Secretary of State Powell was adamantly opposed to a war, either in Afghanistan or Iraq. He knew better. He knew you cannot end terrorism by terrorizing others. I digress. My point is just to give you some links that you may find beneficial in your search for the Truth, if you care to find your Truth.

What do you think of Bush's draft avoidance by enlisting in the Texas Air National Guard? Did you know he was AWOL and didn't even serve from 1972 to 1973 with only limited responsibilities in the time he did serve?

from http://www.motherjones.com/news/outfront/2003/02/ma_217_01.html as you may or may not know Motherjones is a very conservative periodical. Matt, Let me ask you, ________says you were in the military, after being AWOL for a year would they have let you out eight months early, during war time, so you could go to Harvard Business School? I'm thinking no. There are a million sites I could give you but I don't know if you care to be fully informed or have an open mind to the facts of what is happening in the world right now. So I'll give you just a couple to explore at your leisure and you let me know what you think. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info stories gathered from various non commercial news agencies. They don't have to worry about losing products advertising dollars so be wary it's not all pretty.

http://www.awolbush.com/ this site has actual documents scanned for your reading pleasure... You should scroll down in the page and see the graphs. Have you even looked at the changes in veterans benefits under Bush's tenure? the following is just a small portion of this site AWOL----absent for 30 days or less. Desertion-----absent for more than 30 days with evidence of no intent to return to duty. Is he guilty of one or both? You read the facts here and decide. This is not the story of a search for missing records. We have the pertinent records. This is not a hunt for credible eyewitnesses and first hand statements. The officers involved have stepped forward. We have their testimony and we have the signed statements of those no longer living. This is the story of how George Walker Bush walked away from a years duty while in the National Guard. And, this is the story of how he has thus far gotten away with it. Article 83 -Fraudulent enlistment, appointment, or separation Article 85 -Desertion Article 86 -Absence without leave (AWOL) Article 87 -Missing movement Chapter 432, Texas Code of Military Justice (check sections 130 and 131) What about TCMJ, Section 432.130?? When will someone demand answers from George W. Bush about this, and what will he say? Why did the Bush campaign refuse to release his military records, as Senator John McCain and Vice President Gore both did during the 2000 campaign? How much did we all analyze President Clinton's correspondence with military authorities? I personally agree that Bill and Hillary were dirty, together they misled the citizens of the United States of America. They allowed their friends to take the fall for them, they acted despicably, but I still didn't see the damage done to the Bill of Rights by the Patriot Act, under Clinton's watch. In fact what they made the biggest deal of was his sex life and lies about it. C'mon man, Clinton did several illegal things while in office but they nailed him for lies about sex. It's more of the same. So point at Clinton while Bush is allowing our 18 to 22 year olds to die by the hundreds in a war "we won" several months ago. I hope you find some answers to our present difficulties within the links I've sent. Here's one more good one... A SECRET blueprint for US global domination reveals that President Bush and his cabinet were planning a premeditated attack on Iraq to secure 'regime change' even before he took power in January 2001. The blueprint, uncovered by the Sunday Herald, for the creation of a 'global Pax Americana' was drawn up for Dick Cheney (now vice- president), Donald Rumsfeld (defence secretary), Paul Wolfowitz (Rumsfeld's deputy), George W Bush's younger brother Jeb and Lewis Libby (Cheney's chief of staff). The document, entitled Rebuilding America's Defences: Strategies, Forces And Resources For A New Century, was written in September 2000 by the neo-conservative think-tank Project for the New American Century (PNAC).

We are living in an age of propaganda by choice, we are choosing what to believe.

Read Aldous Huxley's 'Brave New World Revisited', what is happening right now was foretold in 1958.

In this insane world only the truly insane are thought to be normal. How else could people so easily adapt to a world in which mans most basic needs are not granted him... food, water and shelter are the biggest money makers in this country! Those are needs man! People are struggling across the world to have their most basic needs met and you are forwarding emails about a damned president barely worth mentioning.

Re: your post #35.

You paint with a pretty broad brush there.

I take you at your word concerning being medicaly evacuated from Iraq. Thank you for your service.

You make what appears to be some very generic accusations. What does "oil grab" mean? I think that if you have legitimate grievances concerning the Iraq policy, then you should spell them out rather than just post a rambling nonsensical outburst.

On the other hand, perhaps you ought to take a breath and consider your words and thoughts more carefully before posting. You will not likely receive a lot of sympathy with that sort of posting here. Moreover, and likely, you will not be believed or taken seriously.

If I am correct, no other government has lasted for more than 200 years..

You of course mean democratic government. The USA is the longest standing Democracy. Actually, the USA is a democratic Republic.

Welcome to FR.

Respond with the following:
George W. Bush ended the recession in the first year of his first term, and defeated 2 of our declared enemies in less than 18 months.

What's more, he achieved these 2 victories for the United States with a death toll of less than 2 hundreths of one percent. He's a military commander that has prooven himself to me and the rest of the world why being a Yale graduate, a Harvard graduate, and a fighter pilot, is important to a President who serves his country so well.

1. Clinton is a baby killer - look at Waco.

2. Clinton is a traitor - giving military high tech secrets to the Chinese.

3. Clinton is a thieving fascist - he and his eco-Nazi buddies illegally seized more than 100 million acres of private property under the Endangered Species Act and paid no compensation. (State control of private property is fascism.)

If this doesn't help, see post #5.

He was credited with five years, four months and five days of service toward his six-year service obligation.

Even leaning all the "he said"/"he said" and "we didn't know where he was" (which none of us would get away with) towards his favor, he is still left a little wanting. I wouldn't bring up his service; and when it does comes up, just let it go by. During that period, few politicians served this country in a manner I would be proud of.

The disparity of who served the front lines is not a proud moment in our history. Even when 'VIPs' went, they had special status. When it comes to the draft, those instating it should have to send their children in first, no exceptions. I think the connection would be a good incentive to find alternative solutions. Maybe they would provide overly adequate resources and be more decisive on winning quickly (PC War? F^*k that!). JMHO.

The patients in Ward 57, the orthopedic ward, tug at everyone's hearts. President Bush has visited there twice. So have Hulk Hogan and the Redskins cheerleaders. The country band Alabama is expected next week.

Link

As for your assertion that President Bush doesn't attend funeral services for our fallen soldiers, why would that be do you think? Possibly because it would cause a nightmare of security problems that would take away from the services.

When it comes to the draft, those instating it should have to send their children in first, no exceptions..

No draft would ever be neccesary if they were to give proper incentives to those who would defend our way of life.

I can think of a lot of things that would incite people to serve in the military. They could start with an Income Tax exemption for Veterans, or at the very least a discount. A reinvogorated G.I. Bill, and improved Veterans services.

It would not be charity or welfare. It would be payment rendered for services received. The Troops (especially now) are putting their very lives on the line for us. Why should a fat good for nothing politician ever receive superior benefits to a combat Veteran? That is indicative of a warped value system in my opinion!.

I heard a talk radio program today. Sean Hannity had a woman call in and she was critical because Arnold's father was a member of the Nazi party.

This reason was according to the woman, good enough to cause people to not vote for Arnold for Governor of California. Perhaps Arnold should not get a vote at all. I can not agree that it should be decided based on the sins of his father. Drafting people because of their parents actions and decisions is equally unfair. Think about it.

A draft, if ever enacted, should not be subordinate to the BS that was proven to be so unfair back during the Viet Nam era.

The problem, as I see it is that we all have already been drafted. We are all already in a War, and only the most very stupid persons cannot see, or will not acknowledge that reality. Like it or not we are all targets, and fair game to those who are waging this War against us.

Some of us see it now. Others, are likely going to come to the recognition of the new paradigm by passing through a very arduous course.

Drafting people because of their parents actions and decisions is equally unfair. Think about it.

I have thought about it. Often. In a draft, somebody's kid is going to be sent by force. If a decision maker can decide to FORCE another's kid to go, they can FORCE their own kid to go first. I don't consider that unfair at all. Quite the contrary, it is the most fair to children of the non-decision-makers. Like I said before, I'll bet THAT military would have abundant resources and THAT war would be won quickly and decisively. These are just side thoughts anyway. A volunteer force is best and OUR volunteer force is the ABSOLUTE best.

The rest of your post is “it’s dangerous outside.” What would you have everyone do? I can b!tch if that’s what you want. The TSA is a joke. Ashcroft is busting porn stars and pipe makers while laying off border control agents. Border control? What border control? And through it all, we’re spending more than we ever have before. I don’t see the 'majority' GOP doing what needs to be done, and frankly, I’m thinking they had more influence and worked better in the minority. At least then I felt like somebody was fighting for us.

What I’d really like to see are stronger third parties. Both these parties SUCK! We’re getting sold down the river on so many levels that the terrorism facet has serious competition for our attention. Oh we’re at war, all right. “[A]nd only the most very stupid persons cannot see, or will not acknowledge that reality.” IMHO.

Clinton never went to the UN regarding Bosnia .. Clinton bypassed the UN by arguing Article 51 of the UN Charter and went to Nato instead .. as for the Holocaust that Clinton claimed of 200,000+ people that were murdered .. also not true .. I think it was 2,000 that was found.

As for putting our troops in harms way .. Read Black Hawk Down

As for putting the american people in harms way .. Read Dereliction of Duty

I don't recall Clinton every recieving a pardon from Carter .. he may have pulled every trick to avoid the draft but he didn't run to Canada ..

This from Walter Reed as of 8/04/03:

"Walter Reed has treated about 750 patients from Operation Iraqi Freedom since the war began, 185 of whom have been battle casualties. Of the 185 battle casualties, 135 have been treated as inpatients and 50 as outpatients. The total number of battle casualty patients discharged is 111, including one death, leaving 24 currently at the medical center as inpatients."

"My understanding is that the service member's intentions do not mean diddly if the service wants you to fly. Refusing to take a fitness exam because he had no intention of flying is a awfully close to dereliction of duty; I'd hate to have to be the one to distinguish the two. It would have been better if he had taken it and failed.

I think a lot of infantryman during the Vietnam era would have jumped at the chance to skip a fitness exam merely because they had no intention of toting a rifle in front of bad guys."

The jet he was qualified to fly was being retired at the time. There was no need for a for an exam. Pilots don't need an exam to fly a plane no longer in service. The physical exam is of no importance.

The infantry didn't take PT tests after AIT. Once you were in the action, a PT test was never used. There was no need, just like a pilot with a jet no longer used. He didn't have enough time left to train in another craft. Officers can have many gaps in their service records. They are treated differently than the enlisted.

This subject has only been prolonged by people that don't understand the military and how things work now and also during that period of time.

"bush does not deserve to be defended. unlike any of you, i just returned from iraqi freedom, medevaced, unfortunatley. what i saw on that flight, and in landsthul, and walter reed, will haunt me forever. all you armchAIR GENERALS EVER DO IS PRAISE BUSH.. he didnot even go to 1 soldiers funeral yet, or visit any troops he doomed for his oil grab.. and thats what it is, but of course none of you will ever know"

From your above statement, grammer and use of the English language, I would doubt that you could qualify to enlist in the military. You should learn more about the Armed Forces, before you try to pull your CON...

DU might believe you.

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