The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector

The Bible - Luke 18 ^ | about 1970 years ago | Jesus Christ

[Chancellor Palpatine]

The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector

9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: 10 "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood up and prayed about[1] himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.' 13 "But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.' 14 "I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

[Catspaw]

There is zero - ZERO - Constitutional basis for removing religious objects or displays from private (i.e. NOT Government) property, and I will offer the pledge for every FReeper who disagrees with Moore's stance that each and every one of us would fight tooth and nail to prevent the state or federal government from trying to regulate such displays on private property.

I go by a Ten Commandments yard sign daily. It's in front of private Christian school. It's been there for quite sometime (they do replace it when it gets weatherbeaten). I've never seen it ripped, torn, or vandalized in any way--and this yard sign has been there for a few years. Had I seen it pulled out, I would've replaced it.

[Sloth]

Imagine the crisis that could have arisen had Al Gore refused to accept the USSC ruling in Bush vs. Gore, with Bill Clinton refusing to allow Bush to transition in. Think about the result had Nixon declined to turn over the tapes. Imagine what our society would be like if people routinely disobeyed orders of tribunals to which jurisdiction they were subject.

Just think of the anarchy that would have ensued if Dred Scott had walked off a free man. It would just encourage all those other uppity slaves to do the same! Thank goodness for the Rule of Law™.

[lugsoul]

The Constitution doesn't care if they support the baseball team.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

So you don't think government officials should be allowed to advance their beliefs in government facilities.

They can't use those facilities as organs of proselyization.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

Slippery slope - and dead wrong.

[AppyPappy]

It also doesn't care if a government official speaks about his beliefs. The government is merely not allowed to create a state religion.

[WackyKat]

Excellent points, but don't expect them to have any effect on the local Pharisees. They have an astonishing lack of insight into their own characters and behaviors.
Didn't Jesus also instruct his followers to pray in their own rooms, secretly, not in public like the hypocrites?

[AppyPappy]

They can't use those facilities as organs of proselyization.

Ah...so if I believe that you are using the facilities as organs of proselytizing when you criticize the government because I believe you are a religious nut, I can have you banned.

Great. I guess the concept of free speech is lost on you. You can sweep it away by calling it "religious".

[MEGoody]

"Ask yourself what abject defiance accomplishes in light of the fact that you can vote and can participate in the political processes of the country."

A lot can be accomplished using civil disobedience. Ghandi and Dr. Martin Luther King come to mind.

[AppyPappy]

Didn't Jesus also instruct his followers to pray in their own rooms, secretly, not in public like the hypocrites?

We are also instructed to obey and respect the government. Should we make that the state law because it is in the Bible?

Here's a hint: It's not YOUR place to tell people how to pray and silence their right to free speech because of what YOU think Jesus said.

[MEGoody]

"You can't compare Roy Moore's acts as a government official establishing his sect of Christianity as the "official" religion of Alabama in defiance of court orders to the civil disobedience of Rosa Parks or Ghandi in seeking political and economic rights for oppressed people."

Please be specific - why not? All three have undertaken civil disobedience in protest of a perceived wrong.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

Rosa Parks was dealing with a genuine wrong. Roy Moore made this one up of whole cloth.

[AppyPappy]

It seems to me like Roy is standing up for free speech. That's important to me.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

The government is merely not allowed to create a state religion.

Moore was all about creating a state religion. Read his statements.

[MEGoody]

"Your government officials cannot use their official facilities to promote and advance their faith. Period."

Then let us make this apply to all faiths. Remove ever reference to 'law givers' in the SCOTUS building. Remove every memorial to/statue of any Greek or Roman gods/goddesses from all governmental property.

It seems that only Moore's monument is being singled out here. I'd have to say that is unconstitutional.

[job]

The Ten Commandments establishes the Christian religion? Are you in the same solar system as we are? Have you asked a rabbi where and when the Ten Commandments came from and about?

[Chancellor Palpatine]

Here's a hint: It's not YOUR place to tell people how to pray and silence their right to free speech because of what YOU think Jesus said.

Isn't that essentially what Moore was doing?

[MEGoody]

"Rosa Parks was dealing with a genuine wrong. Roy Moore made this one up of whole cloth."

Matter of opinion on both counts. At the time Rosa Parks made her stand, there were many who thought she was making her perception of a wrong out of whole cloth.

[AppyPappy]

I did. I saw nothing of the sort. I sounded to me like he was standing up for speech. I didn't see him demanding that people worship anything. He liked the words and he wanted them to be there.

[MEGoody]

"Here's a hint: It's not YOUR place to tell people how to pray and silence their right to free speech because of what YOU think Jesus said. Isn't that essentially what Moore was doing?"

Please tell me how a monument to the 10 commandments tells people how to pray. Please tell me how such a monument prevents people from exercising their right to free speech.