Freeper Research Project: Enoch and Astronomy

8/27/03 | Various Freepers

[Alamo-Girl]

Several Freepers are engaged in a research project to evaluate whether the book of astronomy in 1 Enoch gives the modern day reader any clues concerning its authenticity. Perhaps you would like to participate in the research or keep tabs with the progress as we move along.

Enoch is quoted directly in the book of Jude and about 100 passages in the New Testament are rooted in the 1 Enoch phrasing.

Why is the authenticity of Enoch relevant to Christians today?

But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. - Daniel 12:4

Obviously we are in a time of unprecedented knowledge and travel, thus many have been curious whether the hidden text mentioned in Daniel has already been revealed to any extent.

Some have proposed that the Bible Code (Equidistant Letter Sequence) is the hidden text mentioned in Daniel. So far I believe the search has been limited to a simple matrix but there was some talk of looking for any patterns in a holographic. As I recall, Newton suspected there was a code in the Pentateuch.

Still others have mentioned the book of Enoch which was rediscovered in 1773 in Ethopia and further authenticated by copies found at Qumran (Dead Sea Scrolls). Enoch begins:

The blessing of Enoch; with which he blessed the elect and the righteous who would be present on the day of tribulation at (the time of) the removal of all the ungodly ones. And Enoch, the blessed and righteous man of the Lord, took up (his parable) while his eyes were open and he saw, and said "(This is) a holy vision from the heavens which the angels showed me; and I heard from them everything and I understood. I look not for this generation but for the distant one that is coming. I speak about the elect ones and concerning them. (The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha, Volume I, 1 Enoch)

Chaps. 72-82 The Astronomical Book, like the Book of Watchers, may date from the third century BCE; the oldest copy of it seems to have been made not long after 200 BCE. Sizable portions of the text are preserved on four copies, written in Aramaic, from Qumran cave 4. The Aramaic original appears to have been much different and much longer than the Ethiopic text, adding far more astronomical details." - James C. Vanderkam

At one time Enoch was considered Scripture but it fell into disfavor. I pulled the following excerpt from this link a few years back:

The Book of Enoch (also known as 1 Enoch) was once cherished by Jews and Christians alike, this book later fell into disfavor with powerful theologians–precisely because of its controversial statements on the nature and deeds of the fallen angels…

The theme of the Book of Enoch dealing with the nature and deeds of the fallen angels so infuriated the later Church fathers that one, Filastrius, actually condemned it openly as heresy (Filastrius, Liber de Haeresibus, no. 108). Nor did the rabbis deign to give credence to the book’s teaching about angels. Rabbi Simeon ben Jochai in the second century A.D. pronounced a curse upon those who believed it (Delitzsch, p. 223).

So the book was denounced, banned, cursed, no doubt burned and shredded–and last but not least, lost (and conveniently forgotten) for a thousand years. But with an uncanny persistence, the Book of Enoch found its way back into circulation two centuries ago.

In 1773, rumors of a surviving copy of the book drew Scottish explorer James Bruce to distant Ethiopia. True to hearsay, the Book of Enoch had been preserved by the Ethiopic church, which put it right alongside the other books of the Bible…

Though it was once believed to be post-Christian (the similarities to Christian terminology and teaching are striking), recent discoveries of copies of the book among the Dead Sea Scrolls found at Qumran prove that the book was in existence before the time of Jesus Christ. But the date of the original writing upon which the second century B.C. Qumran copies were based is shrouded in obscurity. It is, in a word, old…

There is abundant proof that Christ approved of the Book of Enoch. Over a hundred phrases in the New Testament find precedents in the Book of Enoch.

Another remarkable bit of evidence for the early Christians’ acceptance of the Book of Enoch was for many years buried under the King James Bible’s mistranslation of Luke 9:35, describing the transfiguration of Christ: "And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, ‘This is my beloved Son: hear him." Apparently the translator here wished to make this verse agree with a similar verse in Matthew and Mark. But Luke’s verse in the original Greek reads: "This is my Son, the Elect One (from the Greek ho eklelegmenos, lit., "the elect one"): hear him."

The "Elect One" is a most significant term (found fourteen times) in the Book of Enoch. If the book was indeed known to the apostles of Christ, with its abundant descriptions of the Elect One who should "sit upon the throne of glory" and the Elect One who should "dwell in the midst of them," then the great scriptural authenticity is accorded to the Book of Enoch when the "voice out of the cloud" tells the apostles, "This is my Son, the Elect One"–the one promised in the Book of Enoch.

The Book of Jude tells us in vs. 14 that "Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied…" Jude also, in vs. 15, makes a direct reference to the Book of Enoch (2:1), where he writes, "to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly…" …

Many of the early church fathers also supported the Enochian writings. Justin Martyr ascribed all evil to demons whom he alleged to be the offspring of the angels who fell through lust for women (from the Ibid.)–directly referencing the Enochian writings.

Athenagoras, writing in his work called Legatio in about 170 A.D., regards Enoch as a true prophet. He describes the angels which "violated both their own nature and their office." In his writings, he goes into detail about the nature of fallen angels and the cause of their fall, which comes directly from the Enochian writings.

Many other church fathers: Tatian (110-172); Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons (115-185); Clement of Alexandria (150-220); Tertullian (160-230); Origen (186-255); Lactantius (260-330); in addition to: Methodius of Philippi, Minucius Felix, Commodianus, and Ambrose of Milanalso–also approved of and supported the Enochian writings…

One by one the arguments against the Book of Enoch fade away. The day may soon arrive when the final complaints about the Book of Enoch’s lack of historicity and "late date" are also silenced by new evidence of the book’s real antiquity.

Here is a current day Jewish perspective on Enoch:

The Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha

The oldest known Jewish work not included in the Bible is the Book of Enoch. This is a complex work, written in the third (or perhaps even the late fourth) century BCE, after the return from the Babylonian Exile and the establishment of the Second Jewish Commonwealth (6th-5th centuries BCE) and before the Maccabean revolt in 172 BCE. The oldest copies of the Book of Enoch, dating from the third century BCE, were discovered among the Dead Sea Scrolls (see below).

The Dead Sea ScrollsBy Ayala Sussman and Ruth Peled

The Qumran sect's origins are postulated by some scholars to be in the communities of the Hasidim, the pious anti-Hellenistic circles formed in the early days of the Maccabees. The Hasidim may have been the precursors of the Essenes, who were concerned about growing Hellenization and strove to abide by the Torah.

Archeological and historical evidence indicates that Qumran was founded in the second half of the second century B.C.E., during the time of the Maccabean dynasty. A hiatus in the occupation of the site is linked to evidence of a huge earthquake. Qumran was abandoned about the time of the Roman incursion of 68 C.E., two years before the collapse of Jewish self-government in Judea and the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 C.E….

The historian Josephus relates the division of the Jews of the Second Temple period into three orders: the Sadducees, the Pharisees, and the Essenes. The Sadducees included mainly the priestly and aristocratic families; the Pharisees constituted the Jay circles; and the Essenes were a separatist group, part of which formed an ascetic monastic community that retreated to the wilderness. The exact political and religious affinities of each of these groups, as well as their development and interrelationships, are still relatively obscure and arc the source of widely disparate scholarly views.

Here is Tertullian’s explanation of why Enoch didn’t make it into the canon:

Early Church Father, Tertullian 155-160 CE

The Book of Enoch & the Church Fathers

Tertullian, for example, wrote, "I am aware that the Scripture of Enoch, which has assigned this order (of action) to angels, is not received by some, because it is not admitted into the Jewish canon either. I suppose they did not think that, having been published before the deluge, it could have safely survived that world-wide calamity, the abolisher of all things. If that is the reason (for rejecting it), let them recall to their memory that Noah, the survivor of the deluge, was the great-grandson of Enoch himself; and he, of course, had heard and remembered, from domestic renown and hereditary tradition, concerning his own great-grandfather's "grace in the sight of God," and concerning all his preachings; since Enoch had given no other charge to Methuselah than that he should hand on the knowledge of them to his posterity. Noah therefore, no doubt, might have succeeded in the trusteeship of (his) preaching; or, had the case been otherwise, he would not have been silent alike concerning the disposition (of things) made by God, his Preserver, and concerning the particular glory of his own house.

"If (Noah) had not had this (conservative power) by so short a route, there would (still) be this (consideration) to warrant our assertion of (the genuineness of) this Scripture: he could equally have renewed it, under the Spirit's inspiration, after it had been destroyed by the violence of the deluge, as, after the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonian storming of it, every document of the Jewish literature is generally agreed to have been restored through Ezra.

"But since Enoch in the same Scripture has preached likewise concerning the Lord, nothing at all must be rejected by us which pertains to us; and we read that "every Scripture suitable for edification is divinely inspired". By the Jews it may now seem to have been rejected for that (very) reason, just like all the other (portions) nearly which tell of Christ. Nor, of course, is this fact wonderful, that they did not receive some Scriptures which spake of Him whom even in person, speaking in their presence, they were not to receive. To these considerations is added the fact that Enoch possesses a testimony in the Apostle Jude."

An opinion from the Later Day Saints corner:

http://www.meridianmagazine.com/sci_rel/010911enoch.html

Modern scholars, beginning with Laurence, all date the origin of the book to the first or second century before Christ, hence it is assigned to the "pseudepigrapha," meaning it is not believed to have been written by the named author. It is dated using standard "scholarly" methods. One rule of dating used by modern scholars, is that if anything is prophesied which turns out to be correct, it must have been written after the event, because otherwise the author would really have to have been a prophet! This complete rejection of the entire concept of revelation forced Laurence to put the authorship of the Book of Enoch extremely late because he saw that it prophesied not only the existence of Parthia (250 B.C.), but even the reign of King Herod the Great, which began in 37 B.C. On the other hand, it was quoted by the Savior and his apostles so it must have been written before their time. Thus Laurence inferred that the book had been written "before the rise of Christianity; most probably at an early period of the reign of Herod."[8] More modern scholarship has concluded that the book was probably written by several authors over the period of about 180-64 B.C.[9] This extremely recent authorship date of course raises the question of how such a late forgery could have been so totally accepted as genuine in just a few decades, which has never been adequately explained.

In this article, let us consider the outrageous possibility that the work was actually originally written by the prophet Enoch long before the Great Flood and contains many genuine revelations.[10] It probably also contains some interpolations of men, and has suffered from mistakes introduced by the many hand-made transcriptions. But for the purposes of this article, when it says that an angel revealed to Enoch a divine calendar, those statements will be taken at face value. One scientific way to test a hypothesis is to assume it is true and examine the consequences. Let us now apply that method to the astronomy contained in the Book of Enoch.

For our own counsel, we Freepers may be able to shed some light on the antiquity of Enoch by looking at the book of astronomy.

1 Enoch contains various statements about astronomy which are strangely accurate considering the known age of the manuscript and the language. Page 14 of the following article dates fragment 4Q208, which is from a Qumran copy of 1 Enoch in the book of astronomy section as paleographic age 200 B.C. and is carbon-dated, calibrated 166-102 BC and 186-92 BC.

Radiocarbon dating of scrolls and linen fragments (pdf)

To put it in context, the Essenes at Qumran were evidently piously anti-Hellenistic, which is to say they strongly resisted the influence of Greece – so much so they went into the wilderness. The other two main sects of Jews after they returned from Babylon were Pharisees and Sadducees. So, in terms of influence on the 1 Enoch book of astronomy – if it were a fabrication – the possible influences would include Babylonia and to a lesser extent Greece. Here are the strange observations concerning astronomy recorded in 1 Enoch:

That the light of the moon is a reflection from the sun: "Then Uriel showed me another order (concerning) when light is beamed into the moon, from which direction of the bright sun it is beamed." 1 Enoch 78:10

Research on the forum indicates that the earliest notion that the moon was reflecting light from the sun can be traced to Greece, ca 450 B.C. Anaxagores of Clazomenae. That date would be plenty early enough for an original from which the Qumran copy would be made. The counter point would be the anti-Hellenistic attitude of the Essenes, but then again, they may not have known the origin of the idea.

Orbits. We know that the moon orbits the sun and the sun orbits the Milky Way. It is very strange (to me) that Enoch would say: "They [sun and moon] do not depart from their orbit, neither increase or decrease it; but they keep faith one with another; in accordance with an oath they set and they rise." – 1 Enoch 41:5

Research on the forum shows the earliest notion of heliocentricity came from Greece - Aristarchus of Samos (fl 320-250 B.C.) but that his views were not prominently held until Ptolemy in 150 B.C.

Aristotle (384 - 322 B.C.)

Aristarchus of Samos (fl. 320 - 250 BC)

NASA

The carbon-dating of 186 B.C. would have to be too old by at least 36 years and even so, the orbit information would need to migrate from Greece to an original Aramaic or Hebrew/Aramaic manuscript to Qumran to be copied to Aramaic. In the alternative, if the 1 Enoch is fake, then the author had to subscribe to the minority view of Aristarchus of Samos, thus not only being Hellenistic but extremely so.

That the sun and moon generate energy: "they do not economize (on energy), for their very essence generates new power." – 1 Enoch 41:7

Research has not begun on this issue.

That the sun shines even when it is not seen: "And neither does it diminish (in respect to its brightness) not take rest but continue to run day and night. – 1 Enoch 72: 36

Research has not begun on this issue.

That stars come into existence and die by becoming lightening – a possible reference to stellar evolution or supernovae: "And I saw another thing regarding lightening: how some stars arise and become lightening and cannot dwell with the rest." 1 Enoch 44

If Enoch had seen a supernova from his heavenly travels, as testified in the manuscript, then he would describe it the way he did - the star explodes into light and cannot gather itself back into being the star.

Research on the forum indicates the first observation of a supernova was in China in 4 B.C. but the cause of a supernova wasn’t understood until 1054 A.D. in Japan and China.

Freeper Right Wing Professor suggested Enoch’s statement might have been a misinterpretation of a meteor (shooting star.) Further research indicates that the ancients in Egypt, Babylon, Assyria all tied meteor activity to omens and weather and knew that they fell to earth as iron, which they pursued.

We have not yet found a hint that the ancients thought stars died or that they died by becoming "lightening."

Ancient Astronomical Observations and in particular this page shows that it is difficult to separate astrology and astronomy in ancient literature.

Singularity? And then there is a reference to the end of all that there is (and beginning) which sounds like a singularity: in chapter 18 a place with no measure and no content, a pit "where the heavens come together." He records that the angel explained [v. 14] "this is the ultimate end of heaven and earth; it is the prison house for the stars and the powers of heaven…"

Research has not begun on this issue.

Was Enoch Hellenized, and if so would that be enough to explain these strange observations about astronomy?

Alexander liberated Israel from the Persian empire around 300 BC and thus from that point forward, the Jews traveled freely in the Greek world and many became culturally Hellenized (paraphrased from a post by PatrickHenry.) There is a Scholar, Chris King, who believes Enoch is Hellenistic and that explains everything:

The Apocryphal Book of Enoch

1 Enoch is an unmistakable product of Hellenistic civilization. A world view so encyclopaediac that it embraced the geography of heaven and earth, astronomy, meteorology, medicine was no part of Jewish tradition - but was familiar to educated Greeks, but attempting to emulate and surpass Greek wisdom, by having an integrating divine plan for destiny, elaborated through an angelic host with which Enoch is in communication through his mystical travels. - Chris King.

IOW, if 1 Enoch is a fake, at the minimum, the writer of Enoch must have been familiar with Greek philosophy.

The main Jewish/Greek philosopher prior to 150 BC was Philo. And I believe he would have either written in Hebrew or Greek. The book of Enoch at Qumran was copied in Aramaic. Some scholars believe the original Enoch may have been a combination of Hebrew and Aramaic like the book of Daniel.

Since the Essenes went into the wilderness to escape the Hellenization, the counter-point is whether they would have intentionally brought a Hellenized text with them. Or if they believed the text was "kosher" – then there are two significant counter-points:

1. The Jewish calendar is 360 days/year whereas the Enochian calendar calls for 364.

Enoch: a brief textual history

The third Enochian book, the Book of Astronomy, is considered the oldest of those preserved, thought to have been written well before the second century. It contains a description of the structure of the universe as well as the details of a 364 day solar calendar, a calendar that seems to have been popular especially in the Dead Sea Scrolls although it is well supported by another pseudepigraphic book, Jubilees.

2. Enoch does not mention Moses specifically and contains no contextual reference to Jewish traditions present in typical pseudepigraphal manuscripts. If the book were written after Moses by a Jewish author, such would be expected because the Jewish traditions would be second nature. Indeed, a Slavonic version of the Enoch, 2 Enoch, is presumed to have been originally written in Greek because the phrasing gives away clues of both the Greek language and culture.

In other words, if Enoch were authentic we would expect it to not include more than prophetic metaphoric references to Moses or Jewish law or Babylon, Greece, Rome, etc.

The Apocryphal Book of Enoch

"One of the most remarkable features of 1 Enoch is that the law revealed to Moses on Mt. Sinai plays almost no part in it at all. It could be objected that it would be more surprising if it did have a role, since 1 Enoch is, of course, about Enoch who lived before the flood (see Gen 5:21-24) and thus long before the law was revealed. The argument would be that the authors of 1 Enoch were consistent about their pseudepigraphic attribution of the material to Enoch and therefore did not commit the anachronism of having him teach and obey the law of Moses.

"But there is a flaw in that argument because at least two places in the book should mention the law revealed on Mt. Sinai. The two places are in the two principal apocalypses, the Apocalypse of Weeks and the Animal Apocalypse. Both of these revelations cover the period when Israel was in the wilderness and, according to the pentateuch, received the covenantal law." - James C. Vanderkam

One comment with regard to Vanderkam's comment: the Enochian Apocalypse of Weeks is a prophesy (forward looking) and thus, IMHO, would not contain more than it does:

93.1 And, after this, Enoch began to speak from the books:

93.2 And Enoch said: "Concerning the sons of righteousness, and concerning the chosen of the world, and concerning the plant of righteousness and uprightness, I will speak these things to you, and make them known to you, my children. I, Enoch, according to that which appeared to me in the Heavenly vision, and that which I know from the words of the Holy Angels, and understanding from the Tablets of Heaven."

93.3 And Enoch then began to speak from the books, and said: "I was born the seventh, in the first week, while justice and righteousness still lasted.

93.4 And, after me, in the second week, great injustice will arise, and deceit will have sprung up. And in it there will be the First End, and in it, a man will be saved. And after it has ended, iniquity will grow, and He will make a law for the sinners.

93.5 And after this in the third week, at its end, a man will be chosen as the Plant of Righteous Judgment, and after him will come the Plant of Righteousness, forever.

93.6 And after this, in the fourth week, at its end, visions of the righteous and Holy will be seen, and a Law for All Generations, and an enclosure will be made for them.

93.7 And after this, in the fifth week, at its end, a House of Glory and Sovereignty will be built forever.

93.8 And after this, in the sixth week, all those who live in it will be blinded. And the hearts of them all, lacking wisdom, will sink into impiety. And in it, a man will ascend, and at its end the House of Sovereignty will be burnt with fire. And in it the whole race of the chosen root will be scattered.

93.9 And after this, in the seventh week, an apostate generation will arise. And many will be its deeds - but all its deeds will be apostasy.

93.10 And at its end, the Chosen Righteous, from the Eternal Plant of Righteousness, will be chosen, to whom will be given sevenfold teaching, concerning his whole creation.

The other thing of course is that over a hundred phrases in the New Testament find precedence in Enoch and Enoch is quoted directly in Jude. So, to the New Testament - Enoch is authentic. The difficulty after 2,000 years is piecing together "the" Enoch.

There are two other Enochs - one is Slavonic, 2 Enoch, and the other, 3 Enoch, is a Hebrew Apocalypse of that name written by Rabbi Ishmael in 132 A.D. (approx). Because of that date and known authorship, 3 Enoch isn't relevant to this project.

1 Enoch - is the oldest and most complete. It was first discovered in Ethiopia (in the Ge'ez language) where it had been preserved but was then confirmed by the finding of the 200 B.C. Aramaic copies at Qumran. 1 Enoch as found in Qumran is the best candidate for the one referenced by Jude. It is also the one with the most complete book of astronomy and thus gives us a window to date the original from which it was copied.

2 Enoch is also quite interesting, particularly in its prophesies concerning the 7,000 years allowed for Adamic man (including the 1,000 perfect era at the end.).

2 Enoch

An entirely different Enoch manuscript has survived in the Slavonic language. This text, dubbed "2 Enoch" and commonly called "the Slavonic Enoch," was discovered in 1886 by a professor Sokolov in the archives of the Belgrade Public Library. It appears that just as the Ethiopic Enoch ("1 Enoch") had escaped the sixth-century Church suppression of Enoch texts in the Mediterranean area, so a Slavonic Enoch had survived far away, long after the originals from which it was copied were destroyed or hidden away.

Specialists in the Enochian texts surmise that the missing original form which the Slavonic was copied was probably a Greek manuscript. This may have been, in turn, based on a Hebrew or Aramaic manuscript….

One of the most fascinating passages of the Slavonic Enoch is the account of the dramatization of eternity found in Chapter 33. As the world was made in six days, so its history would be accomplished in 6,000 years, and this would be followed by 1,000 years of rest, when the balance of conflicting moral forces has been struck and human life has reached the ideal state. (A reference of this conflict is also found in The War Scroll, a future battle between the Sons of Light and the Sons of Darkness. These writings were recently discovered in Qumran Cave 1, which are part of the collection of The Dead Sea Scrolls). At the close of this 7,000 year cycle would begin the 8^th Eternal Day, when time should be no more…

Personally, I believe the 1000 year reign of Christ on physical earth (Revelation 20:2-3) is the seventh thousand referred to in 2 Enoch, because it precedes the eternal, new heaven and earth (Revelation 21.)

However, Enoch – like Revelation – contains many metaphors and parables and is therefore particularly difficult to read.

[f.Christian]

The constitutional wall the founders did build was ...

to protect state and individual rights from a national govt - religion ---

that WALL has been breeched - demolished by liberals - EVOLUTIONIST !

"The real object of the [First] [A]mendment was not to countenance, much less to advance, Mahometanism, or Judaism, or infidelity, by prostrating Christianity; but to exclude all rivalry among Christian sects, and to prevent any ... national ecclesiastical establishment --- which should give to a hierarchy the exclusive patronage * * of the national government. It thus cut off the means of religious persecution (the vice and pest of former ages), and of the subversion of the rights of conscience in matters of religion, which had been trampled upon almost from the days of the Apostles to the present age. . . ." (Footnotes omitted.)

Check out the link above !

Old wall constitutionalist ... keep govt out ---

new wall constitutionalist (( sharia )) --- keep God - truth - science out !

... * * ... guess who --- rag heads - liberals !

[kuma]

Interesting indeed. I googled the name and came up with some sites. I'll certainly include this in the more in depth study of Enoch's statements. One of the more interesting points is that Enoch appears to make the attempt at aligning the solar and lunar calendars. From the few years I've spent trying to do that it can be absolutely maddening. Enoch mentions those cycles side by side and I'm really interested in the level of accuracy. Your addition is much appreciated. Thanks.

[kuma]

Demonology is the reason why I first became interested in this book. The bible never does explain where these unclean spirits come from.

My opinion of Enoch's explanation. God has deemed it necessary that in order to communicate on this earth one needs a physical body. This is why those spirits seek possession. To have their spirits co-inhabiting with the spirit to whom the body belongs. This is why angels took on the "appearance of" a man when coming to earth to communicate God's messages.

One thing that I caught onto particularly was that the "base" if you will of an angel was a child of the heavens, and the "base" of a human was a child of Adam which was what he was called because he was made from the ground. This mixing of bases could be what is considered unclean or out of the order of God.

In Enoch angels were told they were not given female companions to reproduce with because they were eternal and would never face death regardless. This may be why the offspring of the watchers physically died yet continued spiritually being bound to roam the earth. Basically, they were never meant to exist. Their punishment is their existence in a state of limbo belonging nowhere.

[Jeremiah Jr]

Yohanan's Revelation has many astronomical notations.

Revelation 12

1 Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. 2 Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth.
3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. 4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. 5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne. 6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.
7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time."

***

The founding of America

Book review of: The Secret Architecture of Our Nation's Capital

Compare the information with the first three verses, the birth of a nation, woman (Virgo), Dragon's head, etc...

***

In his book, The Secret Architecture of our Nation's Capital, David Ovason describes in great detail the astrological underpinnings of Washington, D.C. and its connection to the sign of Virgo and the ancient Goddess mysteries. Ovason stresses that the Masons, who were among the city's architects and planners and who were present at the groundbreaking foundation ceremonies, were knowledgeable about astrology. In the tradition of ancient astrologers, they would have recognized the link between the stars and the destiny of cities. The most recent New Moon that occurred on Monday, September 17th was at 24 degrees of Virgo. Ovason cites 24 degrees of Virgo as a "critical degree" that repeatedly recurs in the city's most important horoscopes. In the federal city's founding horoscope of April 21, 1791, the day the city foundation stone was laid, Virgo was on the ascendant, with Jupiter rising at 23 degrees Virgo. On October 13, 1792, the day the foundation stone for the White House was laid, both the moon and the North node were conjunct at 23 degrees Virgo. "On September 18th, 1793, when President George Washington in his role as Grand Master laid the foundation stone for the Capitol," writes Ovason, "the Sun  was in 24 degrees of Virgo, and thus reflected the Virgoan nature of the new city. When the cornerstone for the Washington Monument was laid July 4th, 1848, the moon went into Virgo; more importantly, the north node was at 25 Virgo."
"According to medieval Arab astrologers," writes Ovason, "this degree had a particular importance: it marked that point in the zodiac where the Moon was thought to promote the greatest happiness and well-being. We must presume, then, that the intention behind the choice of moment was that this beneficial influence would be transmitted into Washington, D.C."

Aligned with the Stars

Ovason suggests that Washington's planners followed the teachings of the ancient Greek and Egyptian mysteries by aligning the city with a constellation's fixed stars. His well-researched book explores the mystery of the 1791 planning of the city's Federal Triangle, consisting of the Washington Monument, White House and Capitol building and their alignment with the three main stars of the constellation Virgo. On August 10, 1791, the three fixed stars Arcturus, Regulus and Spica rose at sunset, forming a celestial triangle, and the city's Federal Triangle was engineered to mirror the constellation's pattern. Why fixed stars? They appeared to be permanent, therefore suggesting stability and spiritual benevolence, desirable traits when constructing a powerful institutional setting. "A sunset leading to the rise of three stars is rare," Ovason writes, "And a city's alignment with it is unique."
Virgo Symbols in the Nation's Capital The designers' choice to link Virgo with the capital indicates that they may have had a mystical intention to establish balance between the masculine and feminine. Ovason cites the numerous images of a beautiful woman holding a sheaf of grain, the symbol for Virgo, appearing on the nation's architectural decorations. This woman, the virgin, is the only female character in the entire zodiac. Therefore, the most feminine archetypal energy offering healing, purity and wisdom is permanently linked with what appears to be a highly masculine world.
Virgo also appears with a cornucopia, symbolizing the fulfillment of time, prosperity and agriculture. This sign associates with traits of redemption and organization, desirable in a post-war society.
The signs Gemini and Virgo are associated with the planet of communication, Mercury. As the female Mercury (Virgo is considered a "feminine" sign in astrology, while Gemini is considered "masculine"), she represents analysis and critical thinking, qualities that the forward-looking planners knew would play an important role in the nation's future.

Virgo Prevalent in the Charts of Washington, D.C. Buildings

Astrological charts cast for the laying of important building marker stones involve Virgo in a significant way, and point to the sure knowledge of planetary movement. Jupiter was ascending in Virgo when the city's first marker stone was laid on April 15, 1791. On October 13, 1792, the marker stone for the White House was laid with the Moon ascending in Virgo. The Capitol was founded with Mercury conjunct the Sun in Virgo on September 18, 1793, and the cornerstone for the Washington Monument was laid when the Moon was in Virgo.
http://www.stariq.com/pagetemplate/article.asp?PageID=2943

***

More info from the book

Two charts were shown for the cornerstone ceremonies, one for the White House and the other for the Federal city.
The two figures will not reveal much to those unacquainted with astrology, but there is no need to be perplexed by them. My purpose in reproducing these charts is to show the remarkable correspondence between them -- a correspondence which can be grasped even by the non-astrologer.

Let us consider the second chart first. In the arch of skies on the day the foundation stone for the White House was laid, there was a most interesting conjunction. Shortly before noon, the Moon had entered the same degree as the Dragon's Head (a node of the Moon). Both planet and node were in 23 degrees of Virgo. This close relationship is shown in the top of the central panel of the figure to the right:

[figure] means: Virgo in: Dragon's Head 22.48, Moon 23.56

Now, incredible as it may appear, 23 degrees of Virgo was precisely the same as that occupied by Jupiter on the day the federal city foundation stone was laid.
This fact is recorded in the tip of the central panel of the first figure:

[figure] means: Virgo in: Jupiter 22.38 retrograde

What the charts demonstrate is that a chart cast for 1791, and one for 1792, are related by a single degree, in Virgo. The chances of the correspondence being mere coincidence are so remote that we must assume that whoever was directing the planning of Washington, D.C. not only had a considerable knowledge oof astrology, but had a vested interest in emphasizing the role of the sign Virgo.

End.

Revelation 12, the birth of a nation...and...

Revelation 12

13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

14. Wings of a great eagle

August is the month of the sky spectacle of the millennia—the brightest Mars for perhaps 50,000 years. Mars is extraordinarily bright now, but as August moves on, we can see a 75% increase in brightness. Mars becomes even brighter than bright Jupiter.

Watch Mars all month, and see it brighten. At the beginning of the month, Mars will rise at 10 p.m., and reach its pinnacle at 3 a.m. By the end of August, the red planet will rise at nightfall, and reach its highest point at 12:30 a.m.—very convenient viewing hours. Mars is now so bright, that when the sky is dark, we may be able to see faint shadows by its light. Mars is closest to earth on August 27, opposes Sun on August 28, and is closest to Sun on August 30. The rare juxtaposition of these events gives us our brilliant Mars.

Get your spectacular views in now. Earth pulls away from Mars just as quickly as it has pulled up to it. Although it will still be bright in September, during September it loses all the extra August light. It will continue to dim rapidly through autumn.

The great summer triangle is at its best. While you're noticing Mars, look for three bright stars in the form of a big triangle high in the sky. They are all flying high, associated with birds. Although they belong to three different constellations, together they make a landmark in the summer sky.

Vega is the bluest of these stars, and you can see it overhead after it gets dark. Vega travels exactly at the latitude of Washington DC and San Francisco, so it is more or less overhead for observers in the United States. Vega is part of Lyre, a small constellation which looks like the letter "V." Vega is an Arabian word for "swooping eagle."

Just to the east of Vega, also high in the sky, is Deneb, in the tail of the swan, Cygnus. We can see the bright stars of the swan's wings spread wide across the sky. The two stars of the swan's long neck lead out from the center body star, opposite from the tail. This constellation is sometimes called the Northern Cross.

Lower in the sky, towards the south, is Altair, who reminds me of a brilliant diamond. Altair is in the constellation Aquila, the eagle. Learn these three stars, and use the triangle for a landmark in the summer sky.

Saturn, and possibly Uranus, are also visible. Saturn is now an early morning planet, rising around 3 a.m. Note the morning of August 23. Look for the waning crescent moon hanging out near Saturn. The big winter constellations, such as Orion and Gemini, are rising then.

With binoculars, you may be able to see Uranus just above Mars. It looks like a faint green star. They float near each other for several weeks, coming closest at the end of September, when Mars turns direct.
The other visible planets are too close to the sun now for viewing.

http://www.daykeeperjournal.com/skywatch.shtml

The Witness of the Stars
E. W. Bullinger
1893

http://philologos.org/__eb-tws/default.htm

Lyra, The Harp
http://philologos.org/__eb-tws/chap14.htm The books are open!

Daniel 12:4

I'll get to work on Enoch, now where's that copy???

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for your post!

But, to know whether God is speaking in a particular instance, we have to compare what is being said to some sort of rule, i.e., "canon." That is why canonicity must be an issue when discussing the Book of Enoch, if we are considering it in terms of whether or not it is somehow "inspired" (which you seem to be doing).

I understand your concern and your point. The Bible is clear in Acts 17:10-11 that the noble approach is to keep an open mind but then check everything out with the Scriptures:

And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming [thither] went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. - Acts 17:10-11

But because Enoch lived about 3300 B.C. - if the book of Enoch is authentic - it would predate Moses, the Pentateuch.

IMHO, that leaves only one other avenue for Spiritual authentication which is the Word Himself:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. – John 1:1-2

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. – John 1:14

Of course, for the natural man, mentally discerning spirits is perilous; but those of us who have the indwelling of the Spirit and trust and follow Him, will be lead into the Truth:

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. – I Corinthians 2:11-16

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for the interesting excerpts!

It is quite troubling to me that the architects of D.C. would align the city to an astrological end. Intentional construction could be seen as an attempt to obscure Revelation prophesy. If it were constructed that way by happenstance, it would be more meaningful to me.

[Eagle Eye]

fyi

[PatrickHenry]

But because Enoch lived about 3300 B.C. - if the book of Enoch is authentic - it would predate Moses, the Pentateuch.

I had never read about Enoch before. I had been assuming, ever since you brought this to our attention, that the book was written in historical (classical Greek) times, by a writer claiming to have been an ancestor of Noah. If the author really pre-dated the Flood (which I didn't think you believed) then a very early copy of his text had to be on the ark in order to survive. Is there any reference to books on the ark? What would the original written language be?

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for your post!

Indeed, there is only one way Enoch could be authentic and that would be if it were originally written by Enoch who was the uncontested grandfather of Noah. The language of such writings in 3300 B.C. may be lost to us or may simply remain undiscovered. Perhaps we will find a Rosetta stone in Iraq.

The scholars always take the scientific materialism approach to ancient manuscripts. Which is to say that they do not consider prophesy real. Hence the statement in the above Meridian article:

One rule of dating used by modern scholars, is that if anything is prophesied which turns out to be correct, it must have been written after the event, because otherwise the author would really have to have been a prophet! This complete rejection of the entire concept of revelation forced Laurence to put the authorship of the Book of Enoch extremely late because he saw that it prophesied not only the existence of Parthia (250 B.C.), but even the reign of King Herod the Great, which began in 37 B.C.

By the way, Enoch also prophesied about The Elect One (Jesus Christ) and thus using that rule of thumb would have to have been written in the first century A.D.

Since we know that the Enochs at Qumran are copies, and they carbon-date as far back as 186 B.C. - and there exist no older copies from which to work --- the next logical step in further determining whether 1 Enoch could be authentic is to look at the text.

Most of Enoch is like Revelation, speaking in parables and metaphors of future events and supernatural worlds. But Enoch is unique in that it does have the book of astronomy which may allow us to surmise for our own satisfaction whether the author had knowledge which he could not have possessed even at 200 B.C. by any means other than Spiritual revelation.

For Lurkers:

In reading the book of astronomy, I noted several passages which indicated such knowledge and thus I am looking for any other possible explanation:

1. That the light of the moon is a reflection from the sun.

2. That the sun and the moon both orbit.

3. That the sun and the moon generate energy.

4. That the sun shines even when it is not seen.

5. That stars come into existence and die by becoming lightening (supernovae).

6. That the end (or beginning?) of all the heavens is a pit of no measure and no content. (singularity?)

The bottom line is whether all of the above could have been known in 200 B.C.

[PatrickHenry]

The bottom line is whether all of the above could have been known in 200 B.C.

Given the ferment of Greek philosophy, it's at least a possibility. But before Noah ... that's challenging. We need some early-dated manuscripts. At least I do before I could take this as a serious possibility.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for your post! I was pretty sure that was your position!

You have been very helpful in this project finding links to track down possible sources for the observations in the book of astronomy. I do hope you continue to follow the research and let us know if a new lead pops into your mind.

[bluejean]

Awesome and exciting. I've been fascinated with the book of Enoch for years. I printed it out for a good enjoyable read. Megabump!

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so very much for your enthusiasm and interest! Please share with us any observations or leads you may have!

[Alamo-Girl]

I've been following the astronomy leads on the big list of links you provided and found something that might help with your question concerning language in 3300 B.C.

Understanding Planets in Ancient Mesopotamia

At the time of Enoch the language might have been Sumerian, in which case there is quite a bit of information available. However, due to their beliefs the sun, moon, stars and planets were personified with the names of dieties - and thus would be the polar opposite of the Enochian text that has the spiritual beings (angels etc.) separate from the "heavenly" entities, e.g. sun, moon, star.

[jam137]

But because Enoch lived about 3300 B.C. - if the book of Enoch is authentic - it would predate Moses, the Pentateuch. IMHO, that leaves only one other avenue for Spiritual authentication which is the Word Himself... Of course, for the natural man, mentally discerning spirits is perilous; but those of us who have the indwelling of the Spirit and trust and follow Him, will be lead into the Truth:

So, you do have a "personal canon" -- namely whatever it is you believe the Holy Spirit is telling you. Now, we agree that the Holy Spirit speaks through the Scriptures and through those who are applying the Scriptures to you personally. But, you're saying that He will additionally provide private "spiritual authentication" of the Book of Enoch. That way of thinking concerns me, because it certainly does lead to a type of gnosticism.

When Paul is talking in 1 Corinthians about the "natural man not receiving the things of the Spirit" vs. the "spiritual man" who does, he is not referring to the ability to "tune in" to esoteric teachings or Bible codes. He is indeed referring to the "the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory" (1 Cor. 2:7). But, he speaks elsewhere about this mystery (and he says the same sort of thing throughout his writings):

Ephesians 3:3-7 ...by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.

Paul's point is that the natural man does not believe ("does not receive") the plain message of the Scriptures, whereas the spiritual man does. The natural man is confused about the Scriptures ("not able to understand them"), whereas the spiritual man does understand them. Now, as I said earlier, the message of the Scriptures is centered on Jesus and the Gospel. The spiritual man is able to see and believe this, but the natural man is not able to see this and refuses to believe the Scriptures.

The Scriptures were not given to satisfy our natural curiosities about antediluvian characters and angels (which is what the Book of Enoch is mostly about). Rather, they were given to "make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus" (2 Tim. 3:15). If you see "echoes" of Enoch in the NT, that's fine. But, that doesn't imply that we should therefore buy into the whole book or consider it "inspired."

[PatrickHenry]

At the time of Enoch the language might have been Sumerian ...

That link doesn't work for me. Sumerian is a possibility for Noah's family, but we're awfully close to wildly guessing here. The Sumerians were the ones who pretty much invented astrology as we know it. And Abraham came from there (from Ur, the second city after Sumer in Mesopotamia). As you say, Enoch seems to be nothing like that school of thought. His astronomy (if it's an original part of the book) strikes me as Greek.

[jam137]

The mistranslation of the Kind James version of the Bible (my version), leaving out the words, 'the Elect One', ( God's words regarding his beloved Son, Jesus the Christ ), is unsettling, somehow. To think that the authors of the King James version were seeking agreement between the books of the New Testament (Mark and Matthew with Luke) seems so wrongful.

You should know that the King James translators were working with the Textus Receptus (a Greek version of the New Testament), and in the Textus Receptus it says "beloved" rather than "elect." Other Greek manuscripts, however, say "elect," and so many newer translations say "elect" or "chosen." You can see this using this site: http://www.searchgodsword.org/

So, the King James translators were not being somehow deceitful here.

[Alamo-Girl]

I do understand what you are saying and I very much appreciate your concern! I will nevertheless continue to explore ancient manuscripts.

In my walk with the Lord, He has spoken to me in ways with magnify what is written in the Bible. I cannot describe the sensation of a thing ringing true to my Spirit. But I know it when it happens.

Sometimes it is provoked by a thought; sometimes a thing heard – and sometimes a thing read. But however it comes, I take the ringing true to my Spirit quite seriously and with much gratitude. But of course I cannot say that anyone else ought have the same reaction to the same thing.

As an example, one of the ancient manuscripts in the Pseudepigrapha is a story about why Abraham left his father and followed the Lord. It rang true to my Spirit. The manuscript, however, would never qualify for a canon nor would I expect anyone else to receive the story as true. But it magnified the Bible and thus, satisfied me.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for your post and for your thoughts!

Indeed, Enoch's book on astronomy doesn't have the Sumerian characteristics at all. On the other hand, Abraham who came out of Ur was 12 generations after Enoch.

By the way, the only parts of Enoch's book on astronomy that I have found which are paralleled by ancient Greek philosophy are the reflection of the sun off the moon and orbits. The Greek orbit philosophy was a minority view until Ptolemy at 150 B.C. which would be too recent for Enoch, which was copied in 186 B.C.

I haven't found any source in ancient Greece, Babylon, Assyria, etc. for the other observations. And I am aggressively looking for one.

[jam137]

Thanks for the conversation.