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To: jam137
Thank you so much for your post!

But, to know whether God is speaking in a particular instance, we have to compare what is being said to some sort of rule, i.e., "canon." That is why canonicity must be an issue when discussing the Book of Enoch, if we are considering it in terms of whether or not it is somehow "inspired" (which you seem to be doing).

I understand your concern and your point. The Bible is clear in Acts 17:10-11 that the noble approach is to keep an open mind but then check everything out with the Scriptures:

And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming [thither] went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. - Acts 17:10-11

But because Enoch lived about 3300 B.C. - if the book of Enoch is authentic - it would predate Moses, the Pentateuch.

IMHO, that leaves only one other avenue for Spiritual authentication which is the Word Himself:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. – John 1:1-2

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. – John 1:14

Of course, for the natural man, mentally discerning spirits is perilous; but those of us who have the indwelling of the Spirit and trust and follow Him, will be lead into the Truth:

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. – I Corinthians 2:11-16


65 posted on 08/28/2003 6:41:02 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
But because Enoch lived about 3300 B.C. - if the book of Enoch is authentic - it would predate Moses, the Pentateuch.

I had never read about Enoch before. I had been assuming, ever since you brought this to our attention, that the book was written in historical (classical Greek) times, by a writer claiming to have been an ancestor of Noah. If the author really pre-dated the Flood (which I didn't think you believed) then a very early copy of his text had to be on the ark in order to survive. Is there any reference to books on the ark? What would the original written language be?

68 posted on 08/28/2003 7:14:19 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (Hic amor, haec patria est.)
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To: Alamo-Girl
But because Enoch lived about 3300 B.C. - if the book of Enoch is authentic - it would predate Moses, the Pentateuch. IMHO, that leaves only one other avenue for Spiritual authentication which is the Word Himself... Of course, for the natural man, mentally discerning spirits is perilous; but those of us who have the indwelling of the Spirit and trust and follow Him, will be lead into the Truth:

So, you do have a "personal canon" -- namely whatever it is you believe the Holy Spirit is telling you. Now, we agree that the Holy Spirit speaks through the Scriptures and through those who are applying the Scriptures to you personally. But, you're saying that He will additionally provide private "spiritual authentication" of the Book of Enoch. That way of thinking concerns me, because it certainly does lead to a type of gnosticism.

When Paul is talking in 1 Corinthians about the "natural man not receiving the things of the Spirit" vs. the "spiritual man" who does, he is not referring to the ability to "tune in" to esoteric teachings or Bible codes. He is indeed referring to the "the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory" (1 Cor. 2:7). But, he speaks elsewhere about this mystery (and he says the same sort of thing throughout his writings):

Ephesians 3:3-7 ...by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.

Paul's point is that the natural man does not believe ("does not receive") the plain message of the Scriptures, whereas the spiritual man does. The natural man is confused about the Scriptures ("not able to understand them"), whereas the spiritual man does understand them. Now, as I said earlier, the message of the Scriptures is centered on Jesus and the Gospel. The spiritual man is able to see and believe this, but the natural man is not able to see this and refuses to believe the Scriptures.

The Scriptures were not given to satisfy our natural curiosities about antediluvian characters and angels (which is what the Book of Enoch is mostly about). Rather, they were given to "make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus" (2 Tim. 3:15). If you see "echoes" of Enoch in the NT, that's fine. But, that doesn't imply that we should therefore buy into the whole book or consider it "inspired."
75 posted on 08/28/2003 11:39:09 AM PDT by jam137 (see my FR homepage for CA Recall perspectives)
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To: Alamo-Girl
I am sorry I did not read futher

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. – I Corinthians 2:11-16

This is so true it is an excellant guide to truth!

139 posted on 09/06/2003 2:15:02 PM PDT by restornu (Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat them.)
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