Movers Haul Away Ten Commandments in Montgomery

FOXNews.com ^ | Wednesday, August 27, 2003

[NWO Slave]

MONTGOMERY, Ala. — A chorus of demonstrators joined an irate man in screaming "Put it back!" Wednesday morning after a monument of the Ten Commandments was wheeled away from the rotunda of the Alabama Judicial Building.

"Get your hands off our God, God haters!" yelled the wildly gesturing, red-faced man who initiated the chanting.

Workers used a dolly to move the 5,280-pound granite marker from the rotunda to another, undisclosed place in the courthouse building.

Meanwhile, a Wednesday afternoon hearing to consider a lawsuit to keep the monument in the rotunda was canceled.

The lawsuit, filed Monday in federal court in Mobile on behalf of a Christian radio talk show host and a pastor, says forced removal of the monument would violate the constitutional guarantee of freedom of religion.

Christian Defense Coalition Director Patrick Mahoney told the crowd of demonstrators that he wasn't told where the monument had been taken.

Because of its size and weight, the marker was presumably moved to another location on the ground floor of the building.

Mahoney said the monument would not be covered, and that he would be allowed inside to see it once it was moved. Mahoney said he was informed of the plans by building manager Graham George.

Mahoney didn't know whether the monument's new location would be accessible to the public.

The federal court had said the monument could be in a private place in the building but not in the highly visible spot in the rotunda directly across from the building's entrance.

Protest organizers asked the crowd outside not to rush the building or do anything else except pray. Some people seemed to be listening, with dozens kneeling, bowing or lying face-down in prayer in front of the judicial building and on the steps before and after the monument's removal.

The marker was wheeled away in a matter of minutes.

A federal judge in Montgomery ruled last year that the monument, which Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore (search) installed two years ago, violates the Constitution's ban on government promotion of religion and ordered its removal by Aug. 20. The U.S. Supreme Court last week declined to hear Moore's appeal.

But Moore refused to comply. Eight associate justices voted Aug. 21 to remove the monument, and Moore was suspended the next day.

Attorney General Bill Pryor, defending the associate justices, filed a motion Tuesday afternoon to dismiss the latest lawsuit, saying the Mobile court lacks jurisdiction and the complaint lacks merit.

About 150 monument supporters marched on Pryor's office Tuesday, demanding he resign for supporting the associate justices' decision. Seven representatives were allowed inside to meet with Pryor's chief deputy for about 20 minutes. The rest remained outside, chanting, "Resign now! Resign now!"

Gatherings of pro-monument demonstrators outside the judicial building have grown each day in the past week to at times number in the hundreds.

People seeking removal of the monument from its public site had said they were grateful that it was finally being moved, a week after the deadline set by a federal judge.

"This is a tremendous victory for the rule of law and respect for religious diversity," the Rev. Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, said before the monument was rolled out of the rotunda. "Perhaps Roy Moore will soon leave the bench and move into the pulpit, which he seems better suited for."

Lynne's organization was among groups suing to remove Moore's monument, which he installed without telling the other eight Supreme Court justices.

Demonstrators promised to keep up their protests of the removal.

"If it takes 75 years to reclaim this land for righteousness, God find us and our children and our children's children ready," said the Rev. Rob Schenck, president of the national clergy council.

Affirmative Action Judge Opposing Judge Roy Moore

[drjimmy]

So atheists from foreign countries have been coming up to you since this morning and practicing their non-religion in your face? You must lead an interesting life.

[RoughDobermann]

And your point is...?

Sorry, I would have thought that my point was so obvious that it needed no elaboration.

Certainly you don't mean to insinuate the girl is incapable of independent thinking, simply because her parents raised her in the faith.

What I was attempting to state was that, chances are, this girl has been exposed to the Christian faith since she was a baby, beginning with baptism, attending service, perhaps sunday school, etc. Did she do this of her own volition? Did she wake up one morning and say, "Daddy. I want to become a Christian!" If so, great. If not, she has not been allowed to be an "independent thinker" and the fact that she chose to take a Bible to school is hardly surprising.

[huck von finn]

TV loves those kind of shots.

I know...increasingly, they do. I don't watch much TV anymore for that reason. I've reached my saturation point. But your descriptions are great! LOL!

[Truthsearcher]

I would disagree with you as someone who also isn't a member of any established religion.

I consider atheism a religion, because to me religion isn't at all about believing in the supernatural, it's a belief in a certain metaphysical state of the universe that attempts to explain existence, and our purpose in it, and how to conform our actions in concert with that purpose.

In the end that's what every established religion attempts to do. And in the end atheism does the same thing, its only difference is that it attempts to explain it without the supernatural. Atheism doesn't just require one to disbelieve, it also requires one to accept a certain model that explain existence and our purpose in light of the absent of the supernatural, and that model is their religion.

[RoughDobermann]

Rag head liberal SOVIET nazi !

Settle down Beavis...

[nfldgirl]

Does your Bible include the Old Testament? Yes.

Not all Muslim countries exact the death penalty for adultery, either. True.

Neither does Israel, even though they rely on the Old Testament totally. In fact, they do NOT rely on the OT totally. They've rejected all prophecy pointing to Jesus Christ as the Messiah.

But, those laws are still in your Bible, right near those Ten Commandments, which you still adopt from the Old Testament. Yes. But remember, once Jesus came to fulfill the prophecy of the OT, we (all those throughout the ages since) were no longer bound by the penalty for sin as was exacted throughout the OT.

[keats5]

"That's a popular argument going around regarding this subject, but it's very weak. Nobody worships Greek and/or Roman gods and goddesses anymore, at least not in the United States."

Actually, I know someone who does. She got me on this wierd mailing list, and you'd be surprised how many items relating to Athena were offered, complete with little home alters. You could also buy amulets to honor Thor, the Norse head-hauncho god. The worship of gods an godessess is indeed revisitng our county. Have you checked out some of the gift shops in Salem, Mass., lately? For a real education, try doing an internet search for something like "New Age/ Spiritual Products."

[Woahhs]

And you do understand that this assertiveness is ALWAYS going to have some backlash, don't you?

Why? And even so, what has that got to do with the thesis of my post?

My point is that atheists for some reason resent the theist expression, but try to build themselves a philosophical shelter to ward off the resentment of the theist when theists are similarly pressed.

At least for the theist, that resentment is understandable in that the theist conviction is that it is promoting a universal truth, whereas the atheist should have no reason to proselytize.

If atheism is, in fact, a hole where others have belief, they shouldn't care what others believe.

[thoughtomator]

Just a FYI, one need not believe in any diety nor anything supernatural to have a sincere faith in God. It's the people who are trying to portray God as some sort of supernatural spirit who are in error.

God exists by definition. (Roughly, God is the universe and all the laws and interactions with which it operates. Entropy, for example, is a property of God, as is gravity, inertia, etc.). It doesn't matter what anyone believes, God is here, there, and everywhere. Nothing anyone can do can change this.

Just to let you know that there are people who believe in God and actually understand what they are talking about. I often find that the people who resort to religious arguments in non-religious context are the ones who least understand what monotheism is all about.

[babyface00]

I'm sure lots of us would like to see them.

[f.Christian]

mm ...

Wow! Whatever do you mean?


208 posted on 08/27/2003 11:12 AM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)


fC ...

outed --- burqa (( pc )) america - tyranny !

[Catspaw]

If you can stand it, watch tonight's network news. You can bet he'll be the face of the Roy Moore/Ten Commandments story.

I just wonder how many undercover cops are or were in that crowd--I bet had he made a move, they would've come out of the woodwork/stone pillars for this one.

[MineralMan]

"Is their some distinction you draw between "belief" and "opinion?" I fail to see the difference between your disbelief, as a negative expression, and belief, as a positive expression. They are two sides to the same coin so far as I can tell. Neither can conclusively prove it's position, yet hold a definate conviction anyway.
"

I can only speak for myself, since I am not a member of any group. The logic of disbelief is fairly simply. Since it is impossible to prove the non-existence of something, no proof is required to disbelieve. On the other hand, a belief that something exists requires either some sort of proof or a leap of faith.

You'll note that I never say that I believe that no deities or other supernatural entities exist. I always say that I disbelieve in them. There is a distinct difference.

You believe in a particular deity. You have no proof of the existence of that deity, but you believe through faith. That is sufficient for belief. No proof is required, since belief is a construct of the mind. I certainly don't question your belief, nor do I have any desire to alter it, even if I could.

I have no belief regarding such things. I disbelieve in them. That does not mean that I disbelieve that you believe. That would be foolish. Certainly, religious belief has played a large role in world history, and not just Christianity. To deny that would be foolishness.

That, however, does nothing to alter my disbelief, nor my intense belief that you have the right to believe anything you believe in.

I will insist, however, that my right to disbelieve be equally protected, and that my government not attempt to induce me to believe in any particular deity. It's a simple equation. You believe what you wish, and I disbelieve as I wish, and we'll both get along fine.

[RoughDobermann]

Since I'm not an atheist or a Christian, perhaps I'm not qualified to comment. That being said, I find attempts on either side to convince me to join up to be annoying, particularly when they come to my door.

[nfldgirl]

Where's the Trashcan? Where's the parade of Teachers filling the Trashcans with Bibles?

You're right...it wasn't thrown in a trashcan, but the implication is the same, if you ask me. So have a hissy, why don't you!

[Hillary's Lovely Legs]

Don't bother with a translation.

There is no Rosetta Stone for f. christian.

[MineralMan]

"So much for turning the other cheek..."

Hmm...I always wondered what the f. stood for.

[Woahhs]

I would have done the same on your son's behalf. Of course, I would do the same for a kid wearing a t-shirt with a quote from the Quran, or a kid wearing a t-shirt with some wiccan symbol. Would you?

And you don't think a loaded question like that gives any right to doubt the equanimity you try to project?