Computer Program That Analyzed Shuttle Was Misused, Engineer Says

new york times ^ | 8 26 03 | JOHN SCHWARTZ

[freepatriot32]

he computer program that helped NASA mistakenly decide that the shuttle Columbia had not been deeply harmed by a piece of falling foam would have predicted serious damage if used properly, said the retired Boeing engineer who developed the program.

The engineer, Allen J. Richardson, said the program, known as Crater, was never intended to be used in a mission to predict damage, as it was in Columbia's fatal flight. Members of the Columbia Accident Investigation Board, which is expected to release its final report on the disaster tomorrow, have disparaged Crater as a flawed tool. But Mr. Richardson said that it could have worked well in better hands, and could have served as a warning to NASA managers to order further analysis of possible damage from the foam strike.

"They did it wrong, flagrantly wrong," he said in telephone interviews this week. "They could have, and should have, done it better."

[dirtboy]

This government is terrified of the American public. Either that or they just want complete control out of desire for total control.

That may be the case, but from what I have seen working in a large corporation for the first time, I really think that the government pursues something like TIA because it expands government jobs (which equals power) and also keeps the government from having to examine its core dysfunctionalities. Even if TIA was able to generate a workable terrorist suspect list for the agency running it (which I personally doubt), that agency still probably wouldn't propagate that information in a timely basis to other agencies because of turf battles - in other words, the problem that existed prior to TIA that prevented the government from acting on information it had about the 9/11 plot would be the exact same problem that would keep TIA from being useful.

The database on every citizen idea is completely foreign to the understanding of the relationship between citizen and state that I have always thought was proper. And these new surveylance systems are just drachonian.

Some of them actually could be useful and not a significant constraint on civil liberties - but they need to be highly targeted, have a specific purpose and not cast so large a net that the haul cannot be handled. For example, go ahead and create a massive, robust database on anyone entering this country from countries with prior links to terror, and cross-reference any possible source of data for those people - and screw those who might howl about racial profiling.

[CyberAnt]

Complacency! That old bug-a-boo! Too many things go right for too long and people become complacent - and don't believe anything can do wrong.

[Publius6961]

Engineers can also be idiots where it comes to common sense, and certainly Life on the Mississippi by Mark twin is not on their bookshelf.

Had it been, they might have been warned of the dangers of extrapolation.
The section of that book that discusses the length of the river based on historical observations is classic and hilarious.

[Publius6961]

Mark Twain.
Check twice, post once.

[Dilbert56]

What does DARPA have to do with a NASA manager being able to run an existing program?

After the next big terrorist attack we're going to hear all the same "why didn't you connect the dots?" questions. Why didn't you detect that someone living in a city was buying ammonia/fertilizer? Well, you see we would have been tracking all kinds of suspicious activity, from data that's already available in public records, but people were afraid of TIA.

[ColdSteelTalon]

They need to fire these clowns that said that the foam striking the shuttle at such high speeds could not possibly cause the damage that led to the shuttles demise.

A space walk is in order whenever anything strikes the shuttle.

[dirtboy]

What does DARPA have to do with a NASA manager being able to run an existing program?

Institutional incompetence and the unwillingness of large organizations to look at the root causes of their respective incompetence.

After the next big terrorist attack we're going to hear all the same "why didn't you connect the dots?" questions. Why didn't you detect that someone living in a city was buying ammonia/fertilizer? Well, you see we would have been tracking all kinds of suspicious activity, from data that's already available in public records, but people were afraid of TIA.

Once again, TIA would create more dots in an environment where dots are not shared across agencies. The problem is not a shortage of dots, it's a shortage of willingness to share each other's dots.

[bonesmccoy]

you should see what XBob, Snopercod, and I wrote at around post 4,099 in the "observations" thread.

Thanks for pointing out how quickly Freeper Engineering got to the bottom of the accident.

I still think we need a Freeper team to go to Nevada's high desert and locate pieces from the accident.

[DoughtyOne]

About a month ago I spend about an hour finding that original thread. I finally had to pin it down by calling up each individual post one by one on that Saturday morning until I found it.

Then I researched the thread you're talking about, plus the one with the pre-announcement. I don't remember who now, but someone nailed it withing about 50 minutes. Amazing.

My first clue was when the officials fessed up to an insulation strike, then dismissed it out of hand. It was like watching your thirteen year old child lie to you thinking they'd really pulled one over one you, while you're sitting there realizing they are lying from the get go.

NASA tried to cover up. They even tried to say a micro-meteor might had doomed the shuttle. Shameful!
I still say, there was such gross negligence, some of those folks should do time. I'm not looking for blood, but these guys just broke every safety rule in the book as far as I'm concerned.

Take care. I may be a little off the wall here, but I cannot stomach the fact they just dimissed the real danger that killed seven people.

[bonesmccoy]

Yes, the thread I started has now reached 4096 posts.

I posted the thread to suggest how NASA might be able to identify and replicate the accident using an impact test.

NASA carried out that impact test five months later and clearly the cause of the accident was the debris strike on the RCC.

Our thread consistently outpaced the CAIB investigation, predicted debris path prior to NASA, identified the cause of the accident specifically, and provided a significant monitoring function on CAIB.

Jim Robinson should be archiving that thread for his history books. It's probably the best example of why websites like Free Republic work so well.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/835531/posts?page=4096#4096

[DoughtyOne]

I agree. My hat's off to you and those who contributed on the thread. Excellent job.

[thepainster]

I watched the History channel's excellent production of "Failure Is Not An Option" the other night. This documented the evolution of the engineers who ran mission control from the Mercury to Apollo programs. One of the standouts was Gen Kranz, who was portrayed by Ed Harris in the movie Apollo 13. These guys were good.

It is sad to me how NASA has fallen from this high level of excellence to what now can only be described as incompetence.

We need to scrap the Shuttle and Space Station now. It is time to move on to a worthy project.

[Cboldt]

Were there earlier foam-impact related damage events? Yes

Were these event correlated with any changes in foam? Yes

What consideration was given to reverting to the foam formulation that did not shed from the booster?

I'm waiting ....